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2020/2021 - The 55: Roster Talk & Team-Building Analysis


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9 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Not that crazy when your LT is on a rookie deal. By the time that RT deal is up you can give that cap space to your LT

Since when are good tackles allowed to hit free agency though? Mitchell Schwartz doesn't count, as that was our own stupidity.

$17m is a lot to drop on someone who isn't exactly a safe bet.

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18 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He hasn’t been healthy in 2 years and he wasn’t great when he was.

As far as the cap, it’s not about being close to the cap now, it’s about not overpaying for replacement level players.  The cap money you save now is rolled over and can be applied when those monster deals are due.

Unless he restructures for significantly less, I can’t see him sticking around.

I get it, and I won't be crying if we cut him. The rollover cap point is a good one that I overlooked. But he's not a replacement level player. Not saying he's great, or that he's not overpaid, but he's unquestionably above "replacement level". I'm the eternal optimist, so my logic here is probably not the best. But, I want this roster to be as good as possible next year. We are capable of making a run if Baker turns into the QB we had all hoped he would be after showing a lot of promise his rookie year. I don't want to create a hole by letting go of Kirksey. If our LB group revolves around Kirksey, Shoebert and Mack Wilson I'm perfectly fine with that and I expect them to perform well enough to be far from a weakness. Cut him after his year when he saves us $10mil.

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24 minutes ago, Don Roshi said:

Since when are good tackles allowed to hit free agency though? Mitchell Schwartz doesn't count, as that was our own stupidity.

$17m is a lot to drop on someone who isn't exactly a safe bet.

For a 26yr old tackle like him, he is worth the risk IMO. Not like we are getting a washed up tackle or a dude who has never proved anything. 

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20 minutes ago, buno67 said:

For a 26yr old tackle like him, he is worth the risk IMO. Not like we are getting a washed up tackle or a dude who has never proved anything. 

His performances have declined year on year. Then you throw in his acl injury. I don't see the value in spending that amount on a RT. We don't need a top-5 player in that position, so let's not pay like we are.

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We shouldn't blow our entire load on next season. Nor should we pay over the odds trying to fix everything in one off-season.

Make value FA signings and draft picks/trades. If we can bring players in that fit the scheme then we're going to make huge strides regardless.

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I dont know if anyone has brought up the idea on Oliver Vernon......after my first Mock, I see that the overall will of the room is to keep him....

WHAT IF, we offered him a restructured Contract, he's on for 15M this year and that number is large....and none of it Guaranteed.......if we offered him 2M in new Money, and Guaranteed  this year, and 3-5M of the money next year, he would count 8.5M this year vs the cap and 8.5 next year (with 3M if we cut him). 

Now I would still be bringing in Noah Spense, as well as a couple of UDFA this year (the kid from UCLA and N.Kansas). Which SHOULD motivate to understand, if Chad Thomas and Noah Spense both progress into something serviceable and we get any Diamond in the Rough action from the UDFA....15 Un-Guaranteed is a lot of money, especially if he gets nicked up in the preseason......just saying.

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5 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I dont know if anyone has brought up the idea on Oliver Vernon......after my first Mock, I see that the overall will of the room is to keep him....

WHAT IF, we offered him a restructured Contract, he's on for 15M this year and that number is large....and none of it Guaranteed.......if we offered him 2M in new Money, and Guaranteed  this year, and 3-5M of the money next year, he would count 8.5M this year vs the cap and 8.5 next year (with 3M if we cut him). 

For something like this you’d likely have to guarantee him a significant portion of the salary, which wouldn’t be awful.  Essentially guaranteeing him being here in 2020.

It would really depend on how bad he wants to be here. If he’d rather play elsewhere (and he’ll definitely have a market) he could force us to simply cut him or pay him the full 15.

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33 minutes ago, Don Roshi said:

His performances have declined year on year. Then you throw in his acl injury. I don't see the value in spending that amount on a RT. We don't need a top-5 player in that position, so let's not pay like we are.

Agree here. I just don't trust who he will be going forward with having to outbid the rest of the league to get him to Cleveland. 

Why has everyone seemed to soften on Scherff btw?

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Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

For something like this you’d likely have to guarantee him a significant portion of the salary, which wouldn’t be awful.  Essentially guaranteeing him being here in 2020.

It would really depend on how bad he wants to be here. If he’d rather play elsewhere (and he’ll definitely have a market) he could force us to simply cut him or pay him the full 15.

I think with Vernon coming off 3 injury plagued years and the worst sack numbers of his career as a starter, would he want to jump into the FA market this year? Because if he did, the most I think he could get is 1 year Prove it deal, which he could then risk coming off a 4th injured season and turning 30, his career would be over essentially, and a one year prove it deal would be no where near the 8.5 M he would make this year and the Guaranteed half a salary the following year. Dangle a little security in front of him (with those 2 season he would essentially have with us, that would get him to his NFL pension also).....just some thing to think about.

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4 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I think with Vernon coming off 3 injury plagued years and the worst sack numbers of his career as a starter, would he want to jump into the FA market this year? Because if he did, the most I think he could get is 1 year Prove it deal, which he could then risk coming off a 4th injured season and turning 30, his career would be over essentially, and a one year prove it deal would be no where near the 8.5 M he would make this year and the Guaranteed half a salary the following year. Dangle a little security in front of him (with those 2 season he would essentially have with us, that would get him to his NFL pension also).....just some thing to think about.

That all sounds good, but can we also somehow entice him to maybe adding more guaranteed money while making year two a team option if he gets injured again? I want that comp pick.

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1 hour ago, Don Roshi said:

His performances have declined year on year. Then you throw in his acl injury. I don't see the value in spending that amount on a RT. We don't need a top-5 player in that position, so let's not pay like we are.

PFF score over his career so far. Easiest way to compared year to year. 
‘19 - 78

’18 - 67

’17 - 72

’16 - 80

tore his ACL in ‘17, so not surprised in ‘18 he had a down year. Matches up with the timeline of ACL recovery. You can be cleared in 6months but a full physical and mental recovery is around 12-18 months. 

An ACL injury shouldn’t be scary, especially in today’s age. Look at Chubb, you would never know he had an ACL injury. 

I would say he is recovered from the injury 

Edited by buno67
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5 hours ago, buno67 said:

Not that crazy when your LT is on a rookie deal. By the time that RT deal is up you can give that cap space to your LT

You can try and bend it any number of ways, but that cap number for that position will just not fit into how Berry is going to construct this roster.

In my mock offseason, I signed Brian Bulaga to a $11M aav contract. I think that might even be more than they're willing to spend, but in my mind I justified it as a 1-2 year bridge to a rookie taking over.

 Committing many millions of guaranteed dollars to RT on a multi year free agent deal is just not how I see this team operating. 

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What tender would you all offer hunt? 

A 1st means we keep him, a 2nd means we may have to conpete for him. 

In terms of a long term contract i would offer 3 years 21 million extension on the back of the 1st round tender, so 4 years 26 million. That is a discount for what he gets on the open market, so he can play out the situation here, on the 1st and we get a comp pick next year or he can secure his future. Similair to Duke Johnson adding inflation. 

Also very tradeable as a contract for when we need tp sign chubb.

He is more than a 3rd down back, he is our taysom hill wothout the arm, he can do everything, run, catch, play as a h-back, block, lead block,  split out wide. 

Edited by Kiwibrown
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1 hour ago, ditchdigger said:

You can try and bend it any number of ways, but that cap number for that position will just not fit into how Berry is going to construct this roster.

In my mock offseason, I signed Brian Bulaga to a $11M aav contract. I think that might even be more than they're willing to spend, but in my mind I justified it as a 1-2 year bridge to a rookie taking over.

 Committing many millions of guaranteed dollars to RT on a multi year free agent deal is just not how I see this team operating. 

Wasn’t berry apart of the FO who threw huge money at a RG?

RT is no longer viewed as a lesser position tho. With the amount of great pass rushers and the pass happiness of this league you need a good RT and a good LT. 
 

rarher throw money at a person who can be here longer than a season or cause of their ability and age. 

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