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dll2000

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2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

2) Mack was held on nearly every play.  If he wasn't Green Bay gets shut out.  

You can count on that happening every game against GB.  The NFL will do whatever is necessary to protect it's top ranked passers and help those teams to win their divisions because that's who their investors/sponsors want to see in the playoffs.

So they held Mack and probably Hicks as well but could,'t hold everyone and Floyd and RRH got home.  Also, why didn't we blitz Smith?

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30 minutes ago, soulman said:

You can count on that happening every game against GB.  The NFL will do whatever is necessary to protect it's top ranked passers and help those teams to win their divisions because that's who their investors/sponsors want to see in the playoffs.

So they held Mack and probably Hicks as well but could,'t hold everyone and Floyd and RRH got home.  Also, why didn't we blitz Smith?

I didn't see Mack get held on "every play", but if helps everyone sleep, I'll concede that good edge rushers are held early and held often.  Personally, I thought that our Brian Bulaga played one of his best games against Mack.  He was destroyed and injured last year.  He played really, really well this game.

Also...Roquan...just a guess here after re-watching the game.  MLF likes to use crossing routes and bunch sets.  If you blitzed Roquan, you open up the easy passes over the middle.  And we saw what happened when a safety rotated up to play the middle of the field.  Play action over the top.  

The rush was getting home just fine, keeping 2 safeties deeper while having linebackers patrolling underneath was a great scheme.  It did work, let's not pretend it didn't.

Now...I didn't watch Roquan exclusively, but it wouldn't shock me to learn that he was in the middle most of the time trying to take the bread and butter away.  

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1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

It did work, let's not pretend it didn't.

It worked fine.  Just a bit surprised I don't recall seeing him blitz even once.  Could be wrong though.

 

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I didn't see Mack get held on "every play",

Probably not but at the very least you should admit that GB very likely get more leeway on holding call than virtually any other team in the NFL and this is not a new thing.  In fact they've even gone so far as to plead their case to the league as far as the techniques they teach.

Don't mistake me for complaining that OL holding was why we lost.  That's not the case.  I'm merely pointing out that which is not only obvious to me but to millions of other NFL watchers as well including some of the media.  GB is still on favored son status in NY.

Oh......and this is also not debatable.  It is what it is and I've simply come to accept it.

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34 minutes ago, soulman said:

It worked fine.  Just a bit surprised I don't recall seeing him blitz even once.  Could be wrong though.

 

Probably not but at the very least you should admit that GB very likely get more leeway on holding call than virtually any other team in the NFL and this is not a new thing.  In fact they've even gone so far as to plead their case to the league as far as the techniques they teach.

Don't mistake me for complaining that OL holding was why we lost.  That's not the case.  I'm merely pointing out that which is not only obvious to me but to millions of other NFL watchers as well including some of the media.  GB is still on favored son status in NY.

Oh......and this is also not debatable.  It is what it is and I've simply come to accept it.

I've honestly never heard this before.  Not saying it isn't so, I've just never heard it.

I've also never really seen it, then again, I'm not looking for it either.

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19 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I've honestly never heard this before.  Not saying it isn't so, I've just never heard it.

I've also never really seen it, then again, I'm not looking for it either.

Plausible denial eh?  Why not.  It's worked for Presidents right?  ;) 

It happens, trust me.  And it's been happening for a very long time because GB has always been a passing based team.  Someone even did a feature on a technique GB teaches to avoid holding calls and they've lobbied the NFL about this as far as getting grace for it.

I'll see if I can locate it on YouTube but no promises.  It might be embarrassing enough to the NFL to have buried it.

But again, that in itself while it may have stymied Mack a bit didn't cause a loss.

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8 minutes ago, soulman said:

Plausible denial eh?  Why not.  It's worked for Presidents right?  ;) 

It happens, trust me.  And it's been happening for a very long time because GB has always been a passing based team.  Someone even did a feature on a technique GB teaches to avoid holding calls and they've lobbied the NFL about this as far as getting grace for it.

I'll see if I can locate it on YouTube but no promises.  It might be embarrassing enough to the NFL to have buried it.

But again, that in itself while it may have stymied Mack a bit didn't cause a loss.

Packer fans have posted the piece on how Campen taught the technique.  

Campen's gone now, so it will be interesting to see how the line play evolves.  But if the NFL has blessed the technique, whether the Packers lobbied for it or not, why not just replicate it with the Bears?

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

Plausible denial eh?  Why not.  It's worked for Presidents right?  ;) 

It happens, trust me.  And it's been happening for a very long time because GB has always been a passing based team.  Someone even did a feature on a technique GB teaches to avoid holding calls and they've lobbied the NFL about this as far as getting grace for it.

I'll see if I can locate it on YouTube but no promises.  It might be embarrassing enough to the NFL to have buried it.

But again, that in itself while it may have stymied Mack a bit didn't cause a loss.

Wow.  Yes.  I'd love to see that.  ...if you can find it.  No worries if you can't.

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1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Packer fans have posted the piece on how Campen taught the technique.  

Campen's gone now, so it will be interesting to see how the line play evolves.  But if the NFL has blessed the technique, whether the Packers lobbied for it or not, why not just replicate it with the Bears?

That's a rhetorical question I can't answer and I won't even try.  I'm not the Bears OL coach.  Harry Hiestand is.  You'll have to ask him.

It is what it is or at least it was and if we stay fact based that's all any of us know.

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16 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Here is the piece. I really like the author 

 

Thanks for locating this brother.  I think it's especially helpful since Belaga is highlighted here.

On nearly every rush Belega will hold but only long enough to buy Rodgers a bit more time and then he quickly releases it.

One of the best example comes on the rush by Lawrence that begins just after the 2:00 minute mark.

As Rodger continues to hold the ball Lawrence finally breaks to the inside and immediately Belaga reaches out and horse collars him but only for a second before quickly pulling his extended arm back.  It's a sure hold yet he's hoping he can get away with it before the referee spots it.  In other instances he's gripping Lawrence's shoulder pads or jersey and again for only long enough to feel it will slide by.

It's easy to make an argument that there is probably some holding on every pass play and I won't debate that.  But in this case it's actually systemic and part of how Belega manages to succeed keeping his man off Rodgers.  I don't think there's much question about whether or not it's holding.  It is.  The question is more about why is this technique allowed to slide with some OL and not others?

Ragnar would like to debate why then the Bears or other don't just employ the same technique.  I've seen it used by other including instances where a Bears OL has used it and nearly always results in a holding call.  That would say to me that it's not considered a universally acceptable technique by the NFL or by all officiating crews.  So why does GB get away with it?

Part logic and part Aaron Rodgers being who he is.  By the stats two QBs who tend to get away with holding the ball the longest are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers.  Not coincidentally both are future HOF QBs and IF somehow every SB was a match up between these to I'm sure the NFL and their sponsors would be thrilled and if they can help engineer it by maybe putting a thumb on the scale?  Oh well.

I don't see enough Pats games to be able to comment on them but I do see as much of the Packers as I ever care too.  When Rodgers can extend plays more often than not exciting plays happen that are good for GB and for national viewers with no horse in the race but not so good for an opponent.  Aaron is that good that he needs no help yet because of his style he gets it anyway....thumb on scale style.

So that's it and it's not really debatable GB guys.  You can watch it happen.  It just is what it is and it's a slight or not so slight advantage granted to GB principally because of Aaron Rodgers and a need to protect him.  You can argue that NFL stars are not protected but you know it will fall on deaf ears.  They are and Rodgers is by far not the only one.  OK, that's all I've got about this topic.

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