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G08

Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out?

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I don't believe it's the offense itself.  I believe it's more related to Nagy's addictions and "tells" in his play calling.  He tends to get obsessive about stuff and fails to see the bigger picture.  Pettine took away two things he believe Nagy would fixate on, 1) Inside zone runs, and 2) Passing in the 10-20 yard zone where Mitch is most comfortable, and it worked because Nagy never adjusted for it.

Some decisions on down vs distance weren't good at all and he showed a lot of indecisiveness about why he called a 4th 10 pass play still in the 3rd Q rather than try a 51 yard FG.  He still doesn't trust his PK and it's leading to bad decisions including taking a 5 yard penalty for delay of game prior to that failed 4th down attempt.  No penalty and it's a 46 yard attempt.

Why with an offense in so much disarray would you go for it on 4th and 10 that early in the game when a FG conversion makes it a 1 point game and another FG can win it?  It made no sense then and none of his explanation of which there were three different ones make much sense either.  Even Nagy himself can't seem to tell us the one single reason he decided not to attempt a FG.

To be honest I believe he either needs to take that headset off and start coaching his team during the game as a HC should OR he needs to designate either Helfrich or Brad Childress as his de facto game day HC.  Nagy can't seem to do both well and he's shown that before as well.  It's also my opinion that Nagy's indecisiveness and lack of comfort with his own decisions is impacting Trubisky.

That's my take on it so far.

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10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

That's awfully scary. If he's as smart as we think/hope, he'll adjust to this.

It is scary but I'm not altogether certain he actually sees the problem as having it's roots in him.  At least not yet.

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I couldn't have predicted what happened against GB. The guys who didn't get the ball. Bush playing. So many things made no sense that I don't buy this. I hope Tru isn't reading the press clippings. 

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7 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Matt Trestman?

I said this last year and I was laughed at. I was proven to be a moron. This year they lose a single game and now you're saying it? Stop.

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10 hours ago, soulman said:

I don't believe it's the offense itself.  I believe it's more related to Nagy's addictions and "tells" in his play calling.  He tends to get obsessive about stuff and fails to see the bigger picture.  Pettine took away two things he believe Nagy would fixate on, 1) Inside zone runs, and 2) Passing in the 10-20 yard zone where Mitch is most comfortable, and it worked because Nagy never adjusted for it.

Some decisions on down vs distance weren't good at all and he showed a lot of indecisiveness about why he called a 4th 10 pass play still in the 3rd Q rather than try a 51 yard FG.  He still doesn't trust his PK and it's leading to bad decisions including taking a 5 yard penalty for delay of game prior to that failed 4th down attempt.  No penalty and it's a 46 yard attempt.

Why with an offense in so much disarray would you go for it on 4th and 10 that early in the game when a FG conversion makes it a 1 point game and another FG can win it?  It made no sense then and none of his explanation of which there were three different ones make much sense either.  Even Nagy himself can't seem to tell us the one single reason he decided not to attempt a FG.

To be honest I believe he either needs to take that headset off and start coaching his team during the game as a HC should OR he needs to designate either Helfrich or Brad Childress as his de facto game day HC.  Nagy can't seem to do both well and he's shown that before as well.  It's also my opinion that Nagy's indecisiveness and lack of comfort with his own decisions is impacting Trubisky.

That's my take on it so far.

You know, awhile back I was watching film sessions with Carson Wentz and there's a part in there where he talks about a play design that he brought with him from College that he likes to use and so he pitched it to Pederson and now it's in his playbook. They also show a brief segment of Wentz and Pederson having a talk about the offense and going over plays on the sidelines where it seems that Pederson allows Wentz to pick which plays he is most comfortable with and likes. He says "...there's a star next to them".

I really like this approach by Pederson. This had me thinking about this then and even more-so now.
Is Nagy taking this same approach with Mitch and letting him voice his opinions on certain plays?
Is he just figuring that Mitch isn't capable of handling this much responsibility? 
Or is it a ego thing where he figures only he can do the best job by himself?

I'm thinking it's a combination of the latter 2. I don't think Nagy has that much trust in Mitch that he proclaims and I also think he believes his play-calling is superior to any advice or input that Mitch could provide. 

Edited by JustAnotherFan

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2 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

You know, awhile back I was watching film sessions with Carson Wentz and there's a part in there where he talks about a play design that he brought with him from College that he likes to use and so he pitched it to Pederson and now it's in his playbook. They also show a brief segment of Wentz and Pederson having a talk about the offense and going over plays on the sidelines where it seems that Pederson allows Wentz to pick which plays he is most comfortable with and likes. He says "...there's a star next to them".

I really like this approach by Pederson. This had me thinking about this then and even more-so now.
Is Nagy taking this same approach with Mitch and letting him voice his opinions on certain plays?
Is he just figuring that Mitch isn't capable of handling this much responsibility? 
Or is it a ego thing where he figures only he can do the best job by himself?

I'm thinking it's a combination of the latter 2. I don't think Nagy has that much trust in Mitch that he proclaims and I also think he believes his play-calling is superior to any advice or input that Mitch could provide. 

Nagy has claimed that he is and that this was exactly what they were testing Mitch on in preseason as they expanded the playbook for him but I have to wonder just how effective that is if Mitch, wanting to please, claims more comfort than he truly has and then can't go out and execute.  The critiques about him from camp don't appear to be wrong.  Maybe it's Nagy's interpretation of his progress that is.

What we've been told is they've been working on getting plays in faster giving Mitch more time at the LOS to survey the defense and make adjustments.  Not only did I see little if any of that but didn't we take not one but two delay of game penalties?  Whatever "Flubber" they were working on all summer long it failed on Thursday night because Mitch looked even less confident than I've seen him before.

If I go back to my theory that Nagy is doing his best to create Mitch in his own image of what his QB should be instead of simply working on enhancing what comes most natural to him to begin with then he's screwing it up.  Keeping Mitch that tethered to him and his own decision making and play calls rather than allowing him more freedom to "Just Be You" is hurting his progress not helping it.

All we have to do it look at GB's offense to see how Rodgers when running LaFleur's scheme from under center was more bridled and less effective than when he basically said "F' it I'm goin' deep", went shot gun and completed a 50 yard pass.  That's what I meant when I called it Aaron playing playground football and there were other examples as well that he can only achieve playing his own way.

IMHO that may have been the biggest observable difference between two QBs learning to operate in a new scheme.  But in Rodgers case he knows how to improvise if needed even if LaFleur would prefer he didn't whereas Mitch can't do the same and may never learn to do it if Nagy keeps him completely tethered to him and stifles the very instincts he should be working to help Mitch develop.

I dunno if I'm correct about all this or not.  I can only go off what I see vs what we've been told by the guy in charge and jokingly all I can say it Hurricane Mitch didn't hit Alabama as predicted either.  ;)

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On 9/7/2019 at 10:47 AM, G08 said:

Discuss.... 

 

So...after 8 quarters of Bears football, Green Bay feels like they have a "schematic read" on the Bears offense?

And mind you, two of those quarters were when Chicago was running an offense designed to kill the clock?

I think that it is more accurate to say that Adrian Amos clued Mike Pettine in on some tendencies and things to look for.

That and....GB's defense is re-vamped and could actually be legitimate for the first time in like 8 years.

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Based on Nagy's press conference that just ended, I wonder if Montgomery is having an issue learning the playbook.

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7 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Based on Nagy's press conference that just ended, I wonder if Montgomery is having an issue learning the playbook.

Ok this is where I have a problem with that line of thinking.  The guy is a running back.  It's not rocket science.  Hand him the damn ball and he'll make plays.  It's that simple.  It's why you drafted him after all is it not?

I'm tired of hearing about this play book being too hard to learn.  You are coached lots of money to prepare these guys for the type of system you want to run. Time is of the essence.

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34 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Ok this is where I have a problem with that line of thinking.  The guy is a running back.  It's not rocket science.  Hand him the damn ball and he'll make plays.  It's that simple.  It's why you drafted him after all is it not?

I'm tired of hearing about this play book being too hard to learn.  You are coached lots of money to prepare these guys for the type of system you want to run. Time is of the essence.

I don't know.  In GB, we routinely don't play running backs who cannot pass protect.  That's why on third and long and other passing downs, we bring in the below average running back named Jamaal Williams.  All because he can pass protect.

NFL is a passing league.  Better pick up the nuances of pass protection as a back, or you are likely to see far less playing time.

Now, the real question is why the run was abandoned and all those passes thrown.  GB had one ILB.  Martinez.  The other guy playing hybrid ILB was a second year undrafted safety.  Granted I like Greene, but that should have been something to exploit.

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1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

I don't know.  In GB, we routinely don't play running backs who cannot pass protect.  That's why on third and long and other passing downs, we bring in the below average running back named Jamaal Williams.  All because he can pass protect.

NFL is a passing league.  Better pick up the nuances of pass protection as a back, or you are likely to see far less playing time.

Now, the real question is why the run was abandoned and all those passes thrown.  GB had one ILB.  Martinez.  The other guy playing hybrid ILB was a second year undrafted safety.  Granted I like Greene, but that should have been something to exploit.

It was inexplicable.  We were joking that somehow, all those wishes we made during the John Fox era "please God or Vishnu or anyone that will ******* listen, please just make them throw the ball" came true simultaneously, just 2 years late and all at the worst possible time. Only explanation.

 

You bring great stuff by the way, thanks for stopping by. 

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