drfrey13 Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 On the D coaching topic it is true that every coordinator needs talented players to play in their scheme. I will not deny that and I will admit that maybe Guenther will be a better coach down the line. The issue I have is that we had a coordinator that seemed like he could turn our defense, without a lot of talent, into a very good unit while Gruden focused on the offense. Gruden decided before he eve came in that Pagano was not in our plans because his guy was going to be Guenther. Why would he do that when Pagano had this unit playing so well with a lack of talent. He was scheming our defense to success. He was not perfect but he was making chicken soup out of chicken ... This was without an off-season or even a bye week to help transition. Guenther does not have his type of players but this transition could easily take another year or two especially if we do not get top level talent with top 5 picks. I also seriously doubt Gruden green lights a bunch of high defensive picks in the draft again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Head Coaches have to have good working relationships with their entire staff. Thats why most staffs are over hauled when a new HC comes in. I have no problem with Gruden getting his guys. We will see Pagano on Sunday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I'd be down: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 45 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: I'd be down: No no no no no no no no no no no no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Totty said: No no no no no no no no no no no no. Why? It's basically a no risk option at WR for a team who needs more talent at the spot. He's not a cancer. He's just struggled with addiction in his life. Why shun these types trying to turn their life around? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Why? It's basically a no risk option at WR for a team who needs more talent at the spot. He's not a cancer. He's just struggled with addiction in his life. Why shun these types trying to turn their life around? Where’s @Frankie2Gunz 🤣 seriously though worth the gamble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, SimonGruber said: Where’s @Frankie2Gunz 🤣 seriously though worth the gamble Frankie would be soooo happy. Checks all the boxes. Gordon relapses so often that I wouldn’t want him around Waller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, G said: Frankie would be soooo happy. Checks all the boxes. Gordon relapses so often that I wouldn’t want him around Waller. I've always liked Gordon and I don't see the downside of taking a flier on an 28 YO elite athlete. Is Marcel Ateman is a better option? No way... I will say from what I have noticed from watching Gordon this year is that he has lacked the explosiveness I have seen from him in years past. I also question why NE would get rid of him considering they need all the WR help they can get and being such a big target in the red zone. My suspicion is that he is not a trusted route runner in the NE system, combine that with his lack of explosiveness this year and those are the main reasons for him being cut. If he is not a head case or a distraction it certainly wouldn't hurt to add a physical freak like Gordon. He is an upgrade over the bottom of our WR core no matter how you look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, G said: Frankie would be soooo happy. Checks all the boxes. Gordon relapses so often that I wouldn’t want him around Waller. Exactly this. The downside is a possible negative impact on Waller. Love the player but a huge risk off the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Geezy said: Head Coaches have to have good working relationships with their entire staff. Thats why most staffs are over hauled when a new HC comes in. I have no problem with Gruden getting his guys. We will see Pagano on Sunday. I believe Guenther and Gruden did not have a working relationship. On Guenther: “I met Paul Guenther when my brother was the offensive coordinator with the Bengals. I loved the way the Bengals play defense, up the field, single gap, get after it … (Bengals linebacker) Vontaze Burfict, undrafted out of Arizona State, became a star player. (Guenther) can coach coaches. He can coach a lot of different situations. That’s what I love.” They way Gruden makes it sound he made up his mind that he wanted to try and get Guenther on staff if he ever came back before he decided to come back. Pagano was never in the plans or an option for Gruden. The same article states that if Del Rio would have stayed Downing was gone but Pagano would have remained. Another article states that retaining Pagano was discussed when Gruden came on and then later states "Gruden seemingly wanted Paul Guenther from the moment he was linked to the Raiders job". Somebody or some people not named Gruden wanted to keep Pagano. If it was RM then that explains a lot. Edited October 24, 2019 by drfrey13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 5 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Exactly this. The downside is a possible negative impact on Waller. Love the player but a huge risk off the field. Just because one man struggled with addiction, he's going to come into an organization and have a negative impact on another who is 2 years sober? Some of the junk you people think is feasible on an NFL team is ridiculous. Rather than respecting Waller and his journey in a locker room full of leaders... you think a guy like Gordon is just going to come derail him? You think his support system and his mental state is that weak? Just absurd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 12 hours ago, big_palooka said: Why? It's basically a no risk option at WR for a team who needs more talent at the spot. He's not a cancer. He's just struggled with addiction in his life. Why shun these types trying to turn their life around? The guy has shown next to nothing after suspension and injury riddled years in NE with a HOF QB throwing to him. Maybe if it were a signing, and not a trade scenario. I just have a major disdain for the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Totty said: The guy has shown next to nothing after suspension and injury riddled years in NE with a HOF QB throwing to him. Maybe if it were a signing, and not a trade scenario. I just have a major disdain for the guy. can't trade for someone on the IR. He would be paid an injury settlement and then waived. like we did with Eddie V and Doug Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 10 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I've always liked Gordon and I don't see the downside of taking a flier on an 28 YO elite athlete. Is Marcel Ateman is a better option? No way... I will say from what I have noticed from watching Gordon this year is that he has lacked the explosiveness I have seen from him in years past. I also question why NE would get rid of him considering they need all the WR help they can get and being such a big target in the red zone. My suspicion is that he is not a trusted route runner in the NE system, combine that with his lack of explosiveness this year and those are the main reasons for him being cut. If he is not a head case or a distraction it certainly wouldn't hurt to add a physical freak like Gordon. He is an upgrade over the bottom of our WR core no matter how you look at it. Yeah the 2013 Josh Gordon isn’t coming back but he can still play him and Williams with Waller and co not too shabby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, SimonGruber said: Yeah the 2013 Josh Gordon isn’t coming back but he can still play him and Williams with Waller and co not too shabby Gordon is certainly better than the garbage we currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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