Matt Stafford Vs Cam Newton Who Is the better QB overall?

[thedorchannel]

I noticed in the first post of the Matt Stafford thread, Newton wasn't mentioned as a QB that was better than Stafford.  I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks.

[Danger]

Hot take: 

Cam Newton is the most overrated QB in the league.

[thedorchannel]

10 hours ago, Danger said:

Hot take: 

Cam Newton is the most overrated QB in the league.

really?  why do you say that?

[frenchie]

29 minutes ago, thedorchannel said:

really?  why do you say that?

In his 9 year career, Newton has had exactly one (1) great season.  Every other year of his career has been average to below average, yet the media, and most fans talk as though he's one of the top QBs in the league.  He's not.  Not even close.  Newton is probably the most overrated player of the last decade.... 

Players like Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, and Ryan Tannehill have been whipping boys for media and fans for years, yet, those guys routinely put up better numbers than Newton year in and year out. 

As for the original question, Stafford is clearly the better QB.  He's been a top 8-12 QB for most of his career.  Newton has been in the 15-20 range for most of his.

[MSURacerDT55]

This is a bad poll

 

- Cam took Philly Brown, Ted Ginn Jr, Jerrico Cotchery, Devin Funchess, Greg Olsen and a bad offensive line to the Super Bowl

- Stafford is 6-46 vs teams with a winning records, overrated, stat hog

Edited September 9, 2019 by MSURacerDT55

[diamondbull424]

Cam Newton is better. I think if you put Newton on some of those teams with Megatron and the rest of that cast, he wills them to a Super Bowl appearance, at the very least a playoff win. He takes their consistently bad rushing attack and his impact raises the overall quality of that unit. Making their offense much more versatile and deadly. Plus even with how average the Lions OL has been it would still have been better than some of the units the Panthers have trotted out, thus making Newton take less hits than he has.

Whereas Stafford on the Panthers, I think makes the rushing attack becomes less effective and with some of the targets he would have to throw to, he would’ve looked much more pedestrian. I think he either would’ve had prime Joe Flacco type numbers or he would’ve had far more interceptions trying to force the issue.

[iknowcool]

7 hours ago, frenchie said:

In his 9 year career, Newton has had exactly one (1) great season.  Every other year of his career has been average to below average, yet the media, and most fans talk as though he's one of the top QBs in the league.  He's not.  Not even close.  Newton is probably the most overrated player of the last decade.... 

Players like Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, and Ryan Tannehill have been whipping boys for media and fans for years, yet, those guys routinely put up better numbers than Newton year in and year out. 

That is your problem then.  If you think Ryan Tannehill is anywhere close to Newton, then you aren't paying attention.  There is a reason the Dolphins traded him and accomplished very little with him at QB.

And they have only put up better numbers if you completely ignore Newton's rushing contributions.

Newton proved he could be an efficient passer last year when he finally got out of an inefficient system (Shula).  People thought fans were blowing smoke when we said Newton isn't as inaccurate as his sub-60 CMP% would imply.  And what has happened since he got out of that system?  

Same thing with Tyrod Taylor.  Taylor has some years where his numbers were better than Newton too.  Same with Robert Griffin.  Are they better than Cam too?
 

If you don't think he's that good, fair enough.  But if you are just looking at numbers, then you are leaving out a hell a lot of context.  Mike Shula's system did not lend itself to efficient QB play.  Even his MVP year he was at 59%.  Last year when he finally escaped that system, he exploded to 67.9%.  Do you think Newton magically got more accurate despite a worse shoulder?  Newton was about to have a career year before he got hurt again vs Pittsburgh and even then, he still finished with the 2nd best QB rating of his career.  And who honestly thinks Newton, last year for 16 games, was the 2nd best he's ever been?  2017 Newton was just as good if not better, the only difference was he was (again) in an inefficient offensive system with his best receivers being Funchess and Benjamin.

Edited September 9, 2019 by iknowcool

[Uncle Buck]

They are both good, and I'd rate them as pretty close, but if I had to choose, I'd probably go with Cam.

[tom cody]

Close but Cam Newton. 

[diamondbull424]

The win percentage for these two sits at: Cam Newton has a 55% and Matthew Stafford at 46%. I can’t say that the teams around them are really that different all around.

One guy just has that it factor to will a team and make his overall team better than the sum of its parts, the other guy, doesn’t have that ability. At least not to the same degree as the elite QBs and not to the same degree as Cam, whether one considers him elite or not.

[Jameson_Neat]

22 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Cam Newton is better. I think if you put Newton on some of those teams with Megatron and the rest of that cast, he wills them to a Super Bowl appearance, at the very least a playoff win. 

 

Opposing playoff QBs against the Lions completed 75% of their passes threw 0 INTs and had ratings of 134.4, 114 and 119.3. Opposing RBs averaged over 5 YPC as well.

Opposing playoff QBs against the Panthers in Newton's 3 playoff wins completed 63% of their passes, threw 8 INTs and had ratings of 44.3, 43.2 and 91.1. Opposing RBs averaged under 3.5 YPC.

But yeah, "will" and "it" factor just sounds cooler.

 

 

 

 

[diamondbull424]

9 hours ago, BofaDeez54927 said:

Opposing playoff QBs against the Lions completed 75% of their passes threw 0 INTs and had ratings of 134.4, 114 and 119.3. Opposing RBs averaged over 5 YPC as well.

Opposing playoff QBs against the Panthers in Newton's 3 playoff wins completed 63% of their passes, threw 8 INTs and had ratings of 44.3, 43.2 and 91.1. Opposing RBs averaged under 3.5 YPC.

But yeah, "will" and "it" factor just sounds cooler.

Cam has also been a heavy influence in his team only finishing outside the top 10 in rushing 1x (#13) during his entire career. Being able to run the football and control the clock in turn allows the defense more time to rest and make them more effective when on the football field.

Whats more, I said if you put Cam on the Lions with some of those offensive pieces, which are a clear upgrade over anything Cam has had. Megatron, Golden Tate, Reggie Bush, Eric Ebron, etc.

Using a read option style, he gives Reggie Bush and Bell more space to make plays and increase their YPC, thus making the play action with those passing weapons more potent. The offense becomes more versatile. More rest for the defense as well.

[Jameson_Neat]

11 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Cam has also been a heavy influence in his team only finishing outside the top 10 in rushing 1x (#13) during his entire career. Being able to run the football and control the clock in turn allows the defense more time to rest and make them more effective when on the football field.

Whats more, I said if you put Cam on the Lions with some of those offensive pieces, which are a clear upgrade over anything Cam has had. Megatron, Golden Tate, Reggie Bush, Eric Ebron, etc.

Using a read option style, he gives Reggie Bush and Bell more space to make plays and increase their YPC, thus making the play action with those passing weapons more potent. The offense becomes more versatile. More rest for the defense as well.

I don't know, I think Stafford wins a few playoff games if he's facing off against Ryan Lindley or his defense creates 7 turnovers.

Maybe even single-handedly wills them to the Super Bowl.

Also, a backfield of Stewart and Williams is better than anything Detroit has had in a long time. And nobody is taking Ebron or Pettigrew over Olsen. Nobody.

And did Steve Smith not play in Carolina?

 

 

 

[diamondbull424]

17 minutes ago, BofaDeez54927 said:

I don't know, I think Stafford wins a few playoff games if he's facing off against Ryan Lindley or his defense creates 7 turnovers.

Maybe even single-handedly wills them to the Super Bowl.

Also, a backfield of Stewart and Williams is better than anything Detroit has had in a long time. And nobody is taking Ebron or Pettigrew over Olsen. Nobody.

And did Steve Smith not play in Carolina?

Are you really comparing Steve Smith to Megatron? One of these players almost hit 2000 yards receiving, the other did not. What’s more Golden Tate, while not the same as Smith, had SOME (before someone strawmans that I’m saying he’s as good as Smith) similar qualities as Smith, namely that almost RB-esq play style from the WR position to break would be tackles and get tons of YAC.

Can we really say that Olsen is better? We don’t have enough information to make that statement. Greg Olsen was the 31st ranked selection and before Cam Newton arrived had played four NFL seasons and to that point his career high season was 612 yards off of 108 targets (55.6% catch rate that year). Whereas Eric Ebron was drafted 10th overall and considered a stud coming out. And his career high four seasons in was 711 yards off of 85 targets (71.8% catch rate). Olsen didn’t make a probowl until his 8th year in the league (then went to 2 more). Ebron made a probowl in his 5th season last year. There isn’t conclusive evidence to support that Olsen is a better player than Ebron.

Especially because there was a time when he was viewed as potentially being a bust and thus was traded from the Bears to the Panthers. When Newton got him is when he really started lighting up the league and making probowls. Which is a similar narrative to Ebron with Detroit, when he went to the Colts he made his first probowl. Whether that’s coaching/scheme, quarterbacking, or what have you.

In a discussion where I’ve stated that Newton has made players around him better and elevated his team, I think it’s worth noting that Ebron wasn’t elevated to a PB player until after he left the Lions. In addition to elevating Olsen, Ted Ginn was another player who was a bust and looked like after his SanFran stint that he would soon be out of the league, yet Newton turned him into a 10 TD reception WR and made him relevant within the league once again.

In terms of RBs the Lions have brought in some talented backs, why they didn’t work out is likely scheme, but one thing I know as a Ravens fan... with Joe Flacco the Ravens were he 31st ranked rushing attack in 2018. Lamar Jackson takes over the last 7 games to close out the year and they finish with the 2nd best rushing attack all year. Injecting a running QB caused the defense to have to respect him and thus that opened up space for our other backs to do damage. Cam Newton, especially a younger Newton presented a similar impact. Thus I’m not convinced that him and a Jahvid Best or Mikel Leshour (sp), or Reggie Bush... wouldn’t have put in some serious work together.

As we’ve seen with Ebron, just because that rushing attack wasn’t affective with Stafford does not mean it could not have been so with Cam Newton under center.

[Jameson_Neat]

Best retired after not being able to come back from concussions and LeShoure wasn't the same after snapping his Achilles.

Putting in work with Newton, I imagine, changes that, though.

Who's arguing one player over another? You made it seem like Newton has always played with scrubs when that clearly wasn't the case. 

Olsen wasn't traded because he was a bust. He was their best pass catcher at the time and they clearly viewed it is a mistake in hindsight.

I don't care about Lamar Jackson.