Around the NFL Thread

[chisoxguy7]

19 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

As someone who had Damien Williams for MVP at +3200 from Blue Chip I’m sure I am COMPLETELY UNBIASED when I say that they got the MVP wrong in the SB... 

More often than not it's just the "Super Bowl Winning Team's Quarterback" award

[Sugashane]

On 2/3/2020 at 2:58 PM, topwop1 said:

He's a special talent for sure, but who knows if he would have the same success in Chicago vs KC.

We don't have a Travis Kelce or Tyreek Hill on our roster.

ARob and Miller would likely feast and Gabriel might have been a real deep threat too. Not as good obviously but more than enough for a real QB to work with. 

I don't think he sees an MVP or puts up the same stats in the regular season, but I think we have one Super Bowl last year and potentially another this one this year. The defense is good enough he doesn't need to put up 30 to win. 

[topwop1]

18 hours ago, Sugashane said:

ARob and Miller would likely feast and Gabriel might have been a real deep threat too. Not as good obviously but more than enough for a real QB to work with. 

I don't think he sees an MVP or puts up the same stats in the regular season, but I think we have one Super Bowl last year and potentially another this one this year. The defense is good enough he doesn't need to put up 30 to win. 

I don't think it's as simple as plugging Mahomes in for Trubisky last year equals a SB championship but I respect your opinion.

[Heinz D.]

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I don't think it's as simple as plugging Mahomes in for Trubisky last year equals a SB championship but I respect your opinion.

Depends on how you value the coaching, and schemes. 

[topwop1]

59 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Depends on how you value the coaching, and schemes. 

I don't know that I value it too highly to be honest...but the jury is still out.

FWIW I heard Kyle Long recently say in an interview that the scheme that Mitch was being asked to run last season under Nagy did not play to his strengths and abilities...aka Nagy was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with Mitch and wasn't tailoring the offense to things that Mitch is more comfortable with and good at...aka running the ball and using play action.

I'm not saying that Mitch isn't a limited QB but if your his coach then why not try and help him out more by doing those things?  The goal is to win isn't it?

[Heinz D.]

1 minute ago, topwop1 said:

I don't know that I value it too highly to be honest...but the jury is still out.

FWIW I heard Kyle Long recently say in an interview that the scheme that Mitch was being asked to run last season under Nagy did not play to his strengths and abilities...aka Nagy was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with Mitch and wasn't tailoring the offense to things that Mitch is more comfortable with and good at...aka running the ball and using play action.

I'm not saying that Mitch isn't a limited QB but if your his coach then why not try and help him out more by doing those things?  The goal is to win isn't it?

I'm on record as saying that Nagy has not figured out how to implement, or even tweak, his offense. 

[WindyCity]

3 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I don't know that I value it too highly to be honest...but the jury is still out.

FWIW I heard Kyle Long recently say in an interview that the scheme that Mitch was being asked to run last season under Nagy did not play to his strengths and abilities...aka Nagy was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with Mitch and wasn't tailoring the offense to things that Mitch is more comfortable with and good at...aka running the ball and using play action.

I'm not saying that Mitch isn't a limited QB but if your his coach then why not try and help him out more by doing those things?  The goal is to win isn't it?

In Chicago right now the scheme is more important than the QB they currently have.

What is going to give in this situation is Mitch will be replaced in 2021 by someone Nagy thinks can run it better.

Nagy is not making an sweeping adjustments. 

[topwop1]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

In Chicago right now the scheme is more important than the QB they currently have.

What is going to give in this situation is Mitch will be replaced in 2021 by someone Nagy thinks can run it better.

Nagy is not making an sweeping adjustments. 

I won't believe that to be the case until they dump Mitch and get someone better or who they think can be better.  

I'm encouraged by the fact that Nagy overhauled most of the offensive coaching staff but the proof will be in the way the O looks come September.

[WindyCity]

4 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I won't believe that to be the case until they dump Mitch and get someone better or who they think can be better.  

I'm encouraged by the fact that Nagy overhauled most of the offensive coaching staff but the proof will be in the way the O looks come September.

He isn’t going to make massive changes to his offense. He showed that this season. He continued to run an offense his guys could not run.

The personnel will change before the scheme does.

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

He isn’t going to make massive changes to his offense. He showed that this season. He continued to run an offense his guys could not run.

The personnel will change before the scheme does.

Not saying that you’re wrong because I can’t convince myself that you are, but I think that’s a death sentence for Nagy. The best coaches work with what they have. The differences in what NE runs when they’ve had stud receivers vs. what they ran in years where they didn’t were night and day, but they were effective nonetheless. I know the QB talent difference obviously but I don’t think it’s that simple either. BB and McDaniels every year identify what their team does best and maximize it. The goal isn’t to prove Nagy is brilliantly creative  - the goal has to be to score points consistently with the tools available to them. THAT is how he proves his offensive brilliance. If he’s unbending then he’s destined to fail basically no matter who his QB is. Andy Reid’s offense scored 28 ppg this year with Mahomes but it scored 26 ppg with Alex Smith in 2017 too and it wasn’t because Smith was all of a sudden under Reid throwing 55-yard ropes off platform through a keyhole. 

[abstract_thought]

There's a balance that comes from trying to develop and evaluate Mitch as an NFL QB. You can continue to do half-field stuff but that doesn't move him forward as a player and it doesn't help you evaluate whether he's worth paying a 2nd contract.

I also think Mitch ran less because of his shoulder injury. He scrambled 22 times in 2019 compared to 36 times in 2018. 

[AZBearsFan]

11 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

There's a balance that comes from trying to develop and evaluate Mitch as an NFL QB. You can continue to do half-field stuff but that doesn't move him forward as a player and it doesn't help you evaluate whether he's worth paying a 2nd contract.

I also think Mitch ran less because of his shoulder injury. He scrambled 22 times in 2019 compared to 36 times in 2018. 

I think there’s a pretty big misconception about the whole half field read thing. Every team and every quarterback has half field reads in their gameplan every week. I think Nagy was just trying to force too many of the full field reads this year before Mitch was ready for them. And he may never be ready for them consistently. That doesn’t mean he can’t do the other things that he does well while he develops the ability to do the things he doesn’t do well yet even if that takes longer than anyone hoped it would. 

The biggest failure to me of our 2019 offense was in Nagy’s failure to build the gameplan around the things Mitch can do (and openly likes to do) leading to an inconsistent floor for our offense. Building around that wasn’t going to give us a guaranteed 20+ per game but it wouldn’t have us going into the half with 0 half of the games either. I say this is the biggest failure because it was a big factor IMO in Mitch’s stunted development by both putting us in the precarious position of being behind on the scoreboard and by putting him in a position consistently where he wasn’t building confidence, and he was CLEARLY a guy who struggled with confidence this year. If he’s your guy then you HAVE to help him out with that. Asking him regularly to do things he’s not ready to do is the opposite of that. Hell he was practically begging for it at postgame press conferences, then when Nagy obliges Mitch responded with a 4-game stretch in which we saw him look pretty darn good. Some of that was the competition but some of it was him holding up his end when he was better put in position to succeed. He made a damn good Dallas defense look like the Lions defense in prime time and Nagy responded by taking a lot of what worked there out of future game plans. None of this is meant to absolve Mitch of his role in our offensive failures by any means - he certainly has that - but Nagy is the guy orchestrating the show here and he did a poor job of it. Nagy seems to not understand that when this offense flourished under Alex Smith (pretty Mitch-like in his skill set) in the season that GOT HIM THIS JOB it had Kareem Hunt as the league’s leading rusher too. Reid runs the ball with purpose in this scheme and his QBs benefit as much as anyone. Nagy seemingly runs it only because someone reminds him that it’s an option. The Chiefs, Patriots, Saints, Chargers, Falcons, Packers and Seahawks all have Hall of Fame QBs yet they all still maintain a strong commitment to running the ball consistently. That’s not a coincidence. 

[WindyCity]

12 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Not saying that you’re wrong because I can’t convince myself that you are, but I think that’s a death sentence for Nagy. The best coaches work with what they have. The differences in what NE runs when they’ve had stud receivers vs. what they ran in years where they didn’t were night and day, but they were effective nonetheless. I know the QB talent difference obviously but I don’t think it’s that simple either. BB and McDaniels every year identify what their team does best and maximize it. The goal isn’t to prove Nagy is brilliantly creative  - the goal has to be to score points consistently with the tools available to them. THAT is how he proves his offensive brilliance. If he’s unbending then he’s destined to fail basically no matter who his QB is. Andy Reid’s offense scored 28 ppg this year with Mahomes but it scored 26 ppg with Alex Smith in 2017 too and it wasn’t because Smith was all of a sudden under Reid throwing 55-yard ropes off platform through a keyhole. 

I agree. I think he is either going to find the guy who runs his system, or he is going down.

I hope I am wrong, but I have seen very little to convince me that he is going to move off "his system".

[WindyCity]

I liken 2019 to when you put your kid in the pool without water wings for the first time.

They often thrash around and struggle and you have to grab them.

Nagy grabbed Mitch when he was on the bottom with lungs full of water.

[beardown3231]

What exactly are the things Trubisky does well though? Ok, so the big thing is he likes to run around. I highly doubt Nagy told him to stop doing that. More rollouts? Ok, yeah maybe draw up a few more of those. What else?