Around the NFL Thread

[AZBearsFan]

7 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

What exactly are the things Trubisky does well though? Ok, so the big thing is he likes to run around. I highly doubt Nagy told him to stop doing that. More rollouts? Ok, yeah maybe draw up a few more of those. What else?

Tell him to stop? No. But a ridiculous amount of quick hit stop and bubble screen routes effectively takes it away frequently. It’s not just calling what Mitch does well but just as much calling a game that creates more defensive confusion. Make them think more because that makes them 1/4 or 1/2 step slower which in the NFL is EVERYTHING. It benefits EVERYONE. We have like 2 runs out of shotgun (where we run 2/3 of our snaps), and seldom force the defense to defend all 3 levels on any given pass play. That’s making it too easy for NFL defenses. 

[beardown3231]

6 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Neither of those guys is going to be worth a damn in 2020.

If they pick Stanley in the 2nd round Pace should be fired before round 3.

Agree. Stanley is a 5th-7th round prospect., plus, Eason is probably going top 35.

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said:

Tell him to stop? No. But a ridiculous amount of quick hit stop and bubble screen routes effectively takes it away frequently. It’s not just calling what Mitch does well but just as much calling a game that creates more defensive confusion. Make them think more because that makes them 1/4 or 1/2 step slower which in the NFL is EVERYTHING. It benefits EVERYONE. We have like 2 runs out of shotgun (where we run 2/3 of our snaps), and seldom force the defense to defend all 3 levels on any given pass play. That’s making it too easy for NFL defenses. 

But then when Nagy called bubble screens, a few posters in here ripped him for it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[WindyCity]

11 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

But then when Nagy called bubble screens, a few posters in here ripped him for it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The problem with the bubble screens is not Nagy or Mitch.

We have a slow WR core and they suck at blocking.

[Heinz D.]

31 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Neither of those guys is going to be worth a damn in 2020.

If they pick Stanley in the 2nd round Pace should be fired before round 3.

But you think Trubisky WILL be? And will be worth a damn going into the future?

I'm legit confused. I defended Mitch when you consistently, unfailingly, condemned him as garbage. Now you're touting him as the Bears' franchise QB? 

Strange. VERY strange. Can you explain your total reversal on this issue? 

[WindyCity]

9 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

But you think Trubisky WILL be? And will be worth a damn going into the future?

I'm legit confused. I defended Mitch when you consistently, unfailingly, condemned him as garbage. Now you're touting him as the Bears' franchise QB? 

Strange. VERY strange. Can you explain your total reversal on this issue? 

No one is saying Trubisky is a franchise QB. No one is saying he is good. No one is saying he should be in the future plans.

My point is that he may be the best option for the Bears in 2020 considering the cost to acquire a significant upgrade from him.

A 2nd round rookie QB is not coming in here, picking up a complex offense, and developing fast enough to be better than Mitch. Especially a guy like Eason who most view as being incredibly raw.

 

Your suggestions are largely illogical and not reflective of the reality of the Bears situations.

 

[WindyCity]

QBs Worth a Damn in 2020

Brady 

Brees

Bridgewater

Newton

Carr

Rivers

 

None of those guys will be putting on the Navy and Orange. If by some miracle we land Carr or maybe Newton there acquisition costs and contracts would cripple the Bears ability to address other positions on the team.

Edited February 7, 2020 by WindyCity

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

The problem with the bubble screens is not Nagy or Mitch.

We have a slow WR core and they suck at blocking.

But he just said more bubble screens would've helped Trubisky in 2019. Now the problem with bubble screens is the Bears receivers are incapable of blocking for them. If that's the case, how would more bubble screens help Trubisky? Which is it then?

Edited February 7, 2020 by beardown3231

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, beardown3231 said:

But he just said more bubble screens would've helped Trubisky in 2019. Which is it then?

A screen game would help Trubisky a lot.

We just need to find some personnel, outside of QB, that can run them.

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

A screen game would help Trubisky a lot.

We just need to find some personnel, outside of QB, that can run them.

Bubble screens and screens aren't necessarily the same thing. I agree more screens would help, but bubble screens? No

Edited February 7, 2020 by beardown3231

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, beardown3231 said:

Bubble screens and screens aren't necessarily the same thing. I agree more screens would help, but bubble screens? No

Tons of teams use them as essentially running plays.

The Bears just suck at blocking them.

So, the Bears suck at running the ball and extension of the run game passes. They need some dudes who can block some people. Mitch was 30th in YAC yards last season, we get nothing out of the screen game to RBs or WRs.

[AZBearsFan]

7 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

The Bears ran the ball more than the Chiefs, Chargers, and Falcons last season. They were 10 attempts behind the Saints and 12 attempts below the median team.

I suppose Nagy could have just decided to run an offense like San Francisco, but given the quality of their running game (30th in the league in YPC), the Bears would have been punting the ball a lot.

The issues with Mitch were apparent in 2018 and were noted by people around the NFL. Bears fans chose to bury their heads in the sand. Now we're stuck with a bad QB and people want to pin that on the coach. I won't absolve Nagy of his fair share, but Mitch owns the majority of the blame for his lack of success. He's simply not good.

It’s not just about attempts - I think we had probably 150 runs last year with a shotgun handoff to a back immediately at Mitch’s side right up the middle. There was very little imagination which would be fine if those plays were working. They weren’t. Those gave the appearance of runs just to run and not with real purpose. With that, Bears RB rush attempts games 1-16:

1-11

2-25

3-18

4-26 

5-15

6-5

7-33

8-16

9-20

10-23

11-19

12-19

13-23

14-22

15-15

16-29

So with a QB who clearly wasn’t ready to have to shoulder the entire load, evident from week 1 and really probably sooner, we ran the ball 20 times or less in 9 of 16 games. That’s unconscionable.

I think it’s noteworthy the 3 games in which we were most committed to running the ball too:

-Game 4 (When Mitch was injured early in the 1st quarter)

-Game 7 (After Nagy was TORCHED after we ran just 5 times the week prior)

-Game 16 (A glorified preseason game against the MIN backups when the primary goal is to get your key guys to the offseason healthy)

It’s also noteworthy to me that Mitch’s best stretch of the season, by far, came in the period where we were most consistently committed to running the ball (games 10-13). 

Mitch needs to be better. The running game needs to be better. Nagy needs to be better. All of these things are true. All are also not mutually exclusive. 

I don’t know that running SF’s playbook was a better option given our personnel vs. theirs but at least that offense would have an identity and would play to what we actually did do pretty well last year (play action from under center, running behind a FB more frequently, QB more on the move). Nagy’s offense has no identity through two years. We do know that what Nagy was doing was not working for a multitude of reasons last year and that the adjustments we saw were not frequently apparent and almost always very temporary. The QB was part of the problem for sure, but he was only part of the problem as well. 

[AZBearsFan]

11 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Tons of teams use them as essentially running plays.

The Bears just suck at blocking them.

I think a big part of this is that defenses aren’t respecting the deep pass at all because Mitch has so seldom made them pay for cheating up. We’re basically running the screens and bubble screens against red zone defense all the time. That is on Mitch, but being unwilling to press the ball down the field more often anyway is only somewhat on Mitch.

Deep accuracy is IMO the one thing Mitch HAS to be significantly better at in 2020, even over the full field reads. Him being able to back the defense off and hit even the occasional play down the field will open up just so much more with the offense. He doesn’t need to be at the Mahomes or Rodgers level but he needs to be at least average down the field, because average down the field will open up the short passing game more and the screen game more and the play action middle depth routes more. 

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

No one is saying Trubisky is a franchise QB. No one is saying he is good. No one is saying he should be in the future plans.

My point is that he may be the best option for the Bears in 2020 considering the cost to acquire a significant upgrade from him.

A 2nd round rookie QB is not coming in here, picking up a complex offense, and developing fast enough to be better than Mitch. Especially a guy like Eason who most view as being incredibly raw.

 

Your suggestions are largely illogical and not reflective of the reality of the Bears situations.

 

If Mitch shouldn't be in their future plans...then, by definition, he shouldn't be in their future plans, right?

Or...no? 

I have complete confidence a 2nd round QB could come in and pick up the offense to the degree that they hit wide open receivers. Which Mitch didn't do, with frightening regularity, last season. If you don't believe the veracity of that last statement, there's tons of stuff on the internet to confirm it. 

But, let's get away from my illogical statements. You're APPARENTLY (by your own supposition) not saying Trubisky is good. or he should be in their future plans, BUT he's the best option considering the price of an upgrade. What, exactly, are you even saying...and do you even know? When does that price go down? And what should it be? 

Do we just let things limp along until five years from now the Bears are at a "reasonable" 2-14 level, and then pick another QB? Is that it? 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Heinz D.

[AZBearsFan]

20 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

If Mitch shouldn't be in their future plans...then, by definition, he shouldn't be in their future plans, right?

Or...no? 

I have complete confidence a 2nd round QB could come in and pick up the offense to the degree that they hit wide open receivers. Which Mitch didn't do, with frightening regularity, last season. If you don't believe the veracity of that last statement, there's tons of stuff on the internet to confirm it. 

But, let's get away from my illogical statements. You're APPARENTLY (by your own supposition) not saying Trubisky is good. or he should be in their future plans, BUT he's the best option considering the price of an upgrade. What, exactly, are you even saying...and do you even know? When does that price go down? And what should it be? 

Do we just let things limp along until five years from now the Bears are at a "reasonable" 2-14 level, and then pick another QB? Is that it? 

 

I think what he’s saying is that with where we are financially we can’t get significantly better for 2020 at QB in FA without gutting other important parts of our team, and that the likelihood that the 5th or 6th best QB prospect in this or any given draft class is ready to not only come in and play right away but to do so at the level of a capable starter is pretty darn low. I would agree with that, and will go further to say that if Nagy and/or Pace think they’re getting another shot at drafting a potential franchise QB they’re probably not looking to do so on the 5th or 6th best QB prospect in this or any given draft class. 

I think he’s saying we’re stuck in between a rock and a hard place. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by AZBearsFan