GDT "Let's Move On" Edition: Bears & Broncos 9/15/19

[soulman]

5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

That roughing the passer call on Goldman was one of worst calls ever.  That call nearly lost the game   Should have.  

At least they gave that one back because the call against Chubb was just as horrible.  No way he could have avoided hitting Mitch just after the ball was released and I mean less than a full second after.

[RJ_11]

6 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Well done on the win, guys. Gut wrencher for us but in truth, only one of those teams has playoff aspirations and it isn't us.

You have some really nice pieces on all tiers of the Defense; I know all about Khalil Mack during his Bronco killing days as a Raider, but I haven't seen much of players like Eddie Jackson and Leonard Floyd who were both excellent.

I do fear you may be a bit like the 2016/17 Broncos whereby an excellent defense is held back by a struggling QB. I'm just not impressed with the way he sees the field or the accuracy in a muddied pocket I am afraid, but that's just my opinion. Good teams will eventually score points on you and you've got to find a way to go toe to toe. I'm sure you lot have seen enough to correct me.

Best of luck the rest of the way.

Rooting for you guys the rest of the season with Vic being there, go well Denver.

[RJ_11]

Ok some of my thoughts on this:

- That was ugly. But it's on the road in Denver, in September. What had they lost? Just one of their last like 17 home openers? Any type of win in that scenario for us is impressive, ugly or not. 

- Road games are ugly. Think Cardinals away last season, 49ers away, Bills away (offensively). This was (hopefully) just another of those, we have A LOT to work on offensively but we have seen these types of games before - I'm not saying that's a good thing, just saying this might not be the trend for the season.

- Nagy needs to take the trainig wheels off Mitch. He says it's offense 202 now for him, but it sure doesn't look like it. It seems like there was a point last season when the offense changed, in the Bucs and Lions home games we were throwing the ball all over the field. Then things changed, it might have been after the three-pick game against the Rams IIRC? But ever since then, the offense has been this dull as hell short out route and hitch route lovefest. Mitch has the talent to be better if given the chance, I do believe that, and he needs to be given that chance so he can develop - that play at the end of the game was brilliant. Nagy seems almost scared to let Mitch loose now, it took us six plays to punch in a TD from inside the five because there was zero chance of us doing anything but running up the middle on most of those plays, and the Broncos knew that. Let Mitch play.

- I usually need to rewatch the game to judge the o-line on an individual basis, but no sacks against that Denver front? Impressive. The Patterson long run was blocked beautifully by Whitehair, Leno and Robinson too.

- Khalil Mack is good at football.

- The defense was absolutely gassed and still only gave up 14 points, we might be relying on them a ridiculous amount this season, but they are unbelievable. I'm liking Pagano's more aggressive approach a lot.

- Eddie Jackson is good at football.

- Hook that Eddy Pineiro game-winner and the celebrations afterwards to my veins. I will be thinking about that for the rest of the week. Amazing, after all the kicker crap we've been through this off-season, and so many kicks missed around the league these first two weeks... Well our kicker is 5/5 in total, and has hit two 50+ yarders.

- All that matters is we're 1-1. We got out of Denver with a win, that's extremely rare in September. So much to work on, but we're up and running.

#VictoryMonday #GiveMitchAChance

[Superman(DH23)]

Truthfully, I had us at 1-1 after 2 weeks so we are what I thought we would be.  For me it's this simple, I believe in Mitch.  You dont do as well as MT10 does when the game is on the line if you're not a good QB.  I think Nagy is really struggling this year.  We have eaten delay of game and 12 men in the huddle penalties bc of the coach.  We havent seen the tenants of our offense from last year that made us successful.  Hell the only times we have seen those things, it's been successful and resulted in points.  There also seems to be a serious lack of trust in the WRs other than Arob.  Idk if that's Mitch, or if its Nagy, or if its WRs not.doing their job.  Right now tho, if we really take a deep dive here, this feels like the same position we were in last year.  Unsure about the QB after 2 games, the defense being the story.  I really hope it doesnt take till week 4 for the offense to hit its stride again.

[G08]

8 hours ago, WindyCity said:

A win is nice.

But Mitch isn’t good enough. He made 1 throw to cover up for how pathetic the offense was all day.

Nagy needs to stop riding the coat tails of the defense and get this offense going.

I am not sure how I am suppose to be more confident about the season outlook after that.

Why? I'd ride the coattails of this defense until the cows come home. 

A win is a win is a win and I'm proud of Nagy for adjusting his offensive approach this week. It shows me he isn't stubborn or too proud to know when to throttle down. 

[Superman(DH23)]

1 minute ago, G08 said:

Why? I'd ride the coattails of this defense until the cows come home. 

A win is a win is a win and I'm proud of Nagy for adjusting his offensive approach this week. It shows me he isn't stubborn or too proud to know when to throttle down. 

Yeah, but it was a massive overcorrection this week.  As I said earlier there is a happy medium.  It isnt rocket science.  You pass about 55-60% and run 40-45%.  Saying the Bears are winning in spite of Nagy is a very true statement right now.

[topwop1]

35 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Yeah, but it was a massive overcorrection this week.  As I said earlier there is a happy medium.  It isnt rocket science.  You pass about 55-60% and run 40-45%.  Saying the Bears are winning in spite of Nagy is a very true statement right now.

I think what we're seeing through these first two weeks is a combination of rust and Nagy not being fully confident in the offense right now.  He's being ultra conservative with his play calling, even with the passing game. The majority of the pass play calls  are horizontal east west type of plays vs vertical plays.

My hope is that as the season goes on the offense will get into a bit more of a groove and up to speed..  because if not then this team won't win many games this season with the performances we saw in weeks 1 & 2 by the offense. 

Nagy is a smart guy from all accounts. I have faith that he will figure it out.

1-1 is not a bad place to be all things considered 

[Ty21]

8 hours ago, soulman said:

You must be really ill then.  

Well I have been in bed for two weeks with pneumonia in both lungs but I didn’t know it was that obvious 

[abstract_thought]

Fuller had a nice pick, but he struggled for a lot of this game. He's going to allow some easy yards all season if he continues to play so conservatively.

[GOGRIESE]

1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

I think what we're seeing through these first two weeks is a combination of rust and Nagy not being fully confident in the offense right now.  He's being ultra conservative with his play calling, even with the passing game. The majority of the pass play calls  are horizontal east west type of plays vs vertical plays.

My hope is that as the season goes on the offense will get into a bit more of a groove and up to speed..  because if not then this team won't win many games this season with the performances we saw in weeks 1 & 2 by the offense. 

Nagy is a smart guy from all accounts. I have faith that he will figure it out.

1-1 is not a bad place to be all things considered 

He's a very good coach and it shows by what you said above. Just think of the past coaches we've had and how bad they were which went hand in hand with how stubborn they were. He changes and tries to adjust his play calling with how the game is going. Right now it's obvious he's worried about where Mitch's head is at and dumbed down the offense this week. Plus the two pass rushers for Denver didn't help either. Against the Redskins though he needs to let Mitch off the chain or bench him. We need to see what we have. If he can't fully run the offense then we're going to be in trouble. 

[beardown3231]

8 hours ago, soulman said:

BD I'll give him the next three before the bye week to show me he can lead that offense.

That's Wash. on the road on a Monday night on national TV so pressure again, Minny at home where we can't lose another NFCN game at home, and Oakland in London in front of the entire world.  All three of those games can be won or lost depending almost entirely on which Mitch shows up to play.  So far IMHO he's 2-2 as bad Mitch.  Until that pitch to ARob he had less than 100 yards passing.

That's rookie or backup level QB play and there's no avoiding it.  No excuse Nagy can offer can hide Mitch's current issues.

If we lose 2 of those 3 games or God forbid all 3 I would bench him and stater Daniel.  We'd be at least 2 if not 3 games underwater in our own division and any playoff hopes would dangle by a thread at best.  GB is already 2-0 and after the Denver game most likely 3-0.

My strategy isn't based on Daniel being better but rather shocking Mitch into a realization that he has to play like the QB he was drafted to be or he will force Pace and Nagy into looking at other options for 2020.  Either he sucks it up and comes back fierce and ready to take over or he's shamed by it and goes all hang dog.  If it's the latter he's cooked his goose and we do need to find other alternatives.

IMHO this is not something we keep nursing him through week after week.  Eventually we have to do the "fish or cut bait time" with him and IMHO the sooner the better.  His problem appears to be two fold.  He's currently lacking in confidence and his game skills come nowhere near matching his physical skills.  It's a mental/psychological deal for him now and he alone has to break out of that.

 

I'm willing to give him the rest of the year rather than 3 more games because Daniel for an extended period of time would probably be horrible, although he did score 16 in Detroit and 31 in NY last season.

As for the rest of your post, I do agree.

I mean, has Trubisky really regressed? I think @Sugashane or someone else brought up that he hasn't been the same since he came back last year for the Rams game, so for me, I'm now thinking that the issue never completely healed or he's hesitant because of it. He wasn't great last year but he certainly wasn't like this.

Nagy needs to do him more favors. It's entirely possible that D's are taking away his mobility but I was waiting for Trubisky to keep one of those RPO's yesterday because as the game went on, Denver wasn't even looking at him anymore. It never happened. I was waiting for some rollouts and they never happened, and actually, his best throw may have been the one that Cohen dropped/good play by the DB which consequently was him throwing on the move. I also think some no huddle stuff and some quick snap counts would allow him not to change the play, not to audible into something else, but most importantly not to think.

Someone else said that his playcalling has been eerily similar to Trestman's and that is NOT company you want to have and I think all of us can agree with that. Miller 0 catches? Patterson 1? Gabriel, what, 2 or 3? That's insane.

But I'm with you. If he continues to play like this, they'll have no choice but to find either a veteran QB in FA or use a 2/trade up with their two 2's for one.

Edited September 16, 2019 by beardown3231

[beardown3231]

35 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

Fuller had a nice pick, but he struggled for a lot of this game. He's going to allow some easy yards all season if he continues to play so conservatively.

You think that was on Fuller or the D that Pagano called? Fuller doesn't usually play 5-10 yards off of receivers. Perhaps it was by design to not let anything get behind them in a game where points were at a premium?

[abstract_thought]

7 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said:

He's a very good coach and it shows by what you said above. Just think of the past coaches we've had and how bad they were which went hand in hand with how stubborn they were. He changes and tries to adjust his play calling with how the game is going. Right now it's obvious he's worried about where Mitch's head is at and dumbed down the offense this week. Plus the two pass rushers for Denver didn't help either. Against the Redskins though he needs to let Mitch off the chain or bench him. We need to see what we have. If he can't fully run the offense then we're going to be in trouble. 

Does benching really solve any problem though? I don't trust Daniel to play any better and we need to see MT in games to evaluate his future with the franchise.

It's frustrating, but I believe the only solution is to keep playing him and create a gameplan he can handle.

[WindyCity]

2 hours ago, G08 said:

Why? I'd ride the coattails of this defense until the cows come home. 

A win is a win is a win and I'm proud of Nagy for adjusting his offensive approach this week. It shows me he isn't stubborn or too proud to know when to throttle down. 

Because he was brought here to build an offense and his offense is TRASH.

The reason this team is not an elite team is because of the side of the ball is not any good.

This is like Lovie coaching the team and the defense being bad, we would not have accepted that.

[WindyCity]

2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Truthfully, I had us at 1-1 after 2 weeks so we are what I thought we would be.  For me it's this simple, I believe in Mitch.  You dont do as well as MT10 does when the game is on the line if you're not a good QB.  I think Nagy is really struggling this year.  We have eaten delay of game and 12 men in the huddle penalties bc of the coach.  We havent seen the tenants of our offense from last year that made us successful.  Hell the only times we have seen those things, it's been successful and resulted in points.  There also seems to be a serious lack of trust in the WRs other than Arob.  Idk if that's Mitch, or if its Nagy, or if its WRs not.doing their job.  Right now tho, if we really take a deep dive here, this feels like the same position we were in last year.  Unsure about the QB after 2 games, the defense being the story.  I really hope it doesnt take till week 4 for the offense to hit its stride again.

Being in the same place as last year is not acceptable.

Treading water is not good enough.

My issues is not that Mitch doesn't make clutch plays, my issue is that the clutch plays are required by him not being good most of the game. If I set a fire, should I really get credit for putting it out?