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GDT "Let's Move On" Edition: Bears & Broncos 9/15/19


beardown3231

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5 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said:

They don't have years to waste on him being able to take that long to figure it out though. Mitch looked like he did day 1 of his rookie season vs the Packers. That's not very encouraging. Once he gets to the point where he's locking onto one person for the rest of the game it's over for him. But this team is going to continue to go through changes and we can't just keep coddling Mitch until he does/or doesn't figure it out. He needs to by the end of the year or if it were me I'd start looking for his replacement. 

This I agree with. Give him until the end of the year. If he's still playing every week or every other week like he did vs GB, it might be time to bring in some real competition- veteran FA, use a 2 on a QB, etc.

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37 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said:

They don't have years to waste on him being able to take that long to figure it out though. Mitch looked like he did day 1 of his rookie season vs the Packers. That's not very encouraging. Once he gets to the point where he's locking onto one person for the rest of the game it's over for him. But this team is going to continue to go through changes and we can't just keep coddling Mitch until he does/or doesn't figure it out. He needs to by the end of the year or if it were me I'd start looking for his replacement. 

Not years, just this year.

Take yourself back to the '80s when the '84 Bears finished 10-6 then got trashed by SF 23-0 in the NFC Championship Game.  So close yet so far.  We gave up 9 sacks and Steve Fuller was at QB because Mac was hurt.  He had 87 yards passing.

That's where I believe this team is but that loss also was a set up for '85 where they came out breathing fire and virtually swamped the entire NFL.  In fact had Buddy Ryan not been so stubborn in the Miami game and kept insisting on covering WRs with a LB we may have gone 16-0.  We shut out two playoff opponents and could have shut out NE had they not gotten a cheap early  FG off a rare Payton fumble. Their late TD came against an entire defense of backups.

Mitch doesn't have to be an All Pro.  He just has to learn how to win games when what the defense is showing him is not what he expects or would like to see.  He seems to lack an ability to do that right now so this year is one where he needs to gain that ability.  If he can't then the year won't matter.  We won't win a championship with him at QB and it's time to look at other possibilities.  With this defense a smart QB who can consistently manufacture 24 points per game is better than whatever upside Mitch may or may not have.

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10 hours ago, soulman said:
1 hour ago, GOGRIESE said:

They don't have years to waste on him being able to take that long to figure it out though. Mitch looked like he did day 1 of his rookie season vs the Packers. That's not very encouraging. Once he gets to the point where he's locking onto one person for the rest of the game it's over for him. But this team is going to continue to go through changes and we can't just keep coddling Mitch until he does/or doesn't figure it out. He needs to by the end of the year or if it were me I'd start looking for his replacement. 

 I still see too many flaws in our offensive schemes and in Mitch to believe he can take us all the way there let alone win it all

....if he can get over his rather obvious tendencies to crack under pressure. 

He needs to be able to do it with his brains and his arm and make teams pay when they do bring pressure.

Pace and Nagy presented Mitch to the World on thurs and told him to win throwing every play ....Nagy foolishly(imho) stayed that course ....could be Pace also in his ear just as bad idk

Mitch can still learn to win with his arm and  win SBs along the way as long as we have  elite run game, playmakingWRs/TEs,  D & Special Teams ..esp with MT10s rushing ability. We have all that if Burton can get on the dam field or Pace make a trade.

We just held f***lick12 to 10 points while he was fresh and fully healthy ....he was lucky to get 10 

Bizcuit shouldn't throw more than 20-25 times this week ...we'll see WHAT Nagy does and what Pace does  bc I think they pushed and planned on too much too soon and it's burned them both.

 

That said, Trubisky and thiis roster can win a SB now esp with a more appropriate approach to his production v development 

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3 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

Pace needs to make a trade for a bigtime TE  and maybe even Punter 

Only guy I can think of is Evan Engram but Engram is hurt a lot. He had a chance at Colquitt but he went to Minnesota. I've been pounding the "O'Donnell is horrible" table for years now. There's a guy that I like a lot in the draft in 2020: Braden Mann from Texas A&M.

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What I posted in Denver forum.  They are pretty confident they are going to win.  Nobody respects Bears O right now:

Our O line was a disaster vs sugar and stunt looks.  Free runners to QB all day as line blocked wrong guy time and again.  New center and no pre season snaps was probably to blame and it snowballed under pressure of first game and hype etc.   Guard just had his first baby and hasn't been focused on football methinks. 

Defensive line trickery isn't really Fangio's thing though so there's that in Bears favor.

Everyone figures Bears will gas in altitude in Sept. heat  like most do so a fast start is important for Bears.   

GB pressure destroyed MT ability to do anything and he became mentally deficient making him at his absolute worst and now people are screaming bust.  He looked like a bust.  They might be right, but I am reserving judgment until end of year.  I think there is still hope because he is a hard worker and does have some legit talent.  Sometimes you have days like that.   

Defense did not regress after every single person in media and outside Bears fandom said it would without their DC.  It may in fact be better.  Not sure why people thought Khalil Mack, Jackson, Hicks, Smith and company were all of a sudden going to suck with a different play caller.  That could be scary for a Denver team that is not stacked with talent and does not have a mobile QB.

So if you [Denver] can pressure MT and gas the defense you can win.  The team is on a razor's edge and everyone is pressing due to media and fan pressure and people upset over game 1.

But if you give them confidence early, especially the offense, it could turn into an avalanche.  

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6 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

Pace needs to make a trade for a bigtime TE  and maybe even Punter 

Who and for what?  

Patriots don't seem to need a TE or any one thing.  They morph to whatever they need to be as situation and personnel dictates theirs or opponents.  Nagy needs to study their offense and how they adjust situationally. What they do seems really plug and play.

 

 

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2 hours ago, SLCbear said:

Mitch can still learn to win with his arm and  win SBs along the way as long as we have  elite run game, playmakingWRs/TEs,  D & Special Teams ..esp with MT10s rushing ability.

Championships are won by QBs who can still do it without all of that because very rarely are you gonna have that whole package and the kind of defense we have.

Many put Cutler down but until the wheels fell off the defense he'd won 80% of his starts when the defense held an opponent to 20 points or less and he's also in the top 20% of all QBs in 4th Q wins and he did that with little to no offensive support.  As bad as he could be at times there was still an element in him that knew how to go out and win some games.

While we may perceive Mitch to be an upgrade over Cutler at this point in his career he's really not.  In fact he's been almost as guilty as Cutler of having caused some critical turnovers even with far better coaching and support.

I'm not pining for the days of Jay Cutler again but it's time to at least temper all of what we were told this summer about his progress and look at reality.  He has great physical ability but he's a very immature QB at this stage of the game and IMHO much of that can be attributed to his obsession with being perfect.  That's what causes him to hold the ball too long or doubt what he sees or his own ability to make the throw needed.

When he can finally relax and just play football he's shows signs of improvement until he doesn't.  Unless he can get over that and become at reasonably consistent and dare I say average or slightly better than average each game we're gonna be as dependent as ever on defensive scoring to win games because he'll keep failing to get his unit into the end zone. 

Great QBs will kill you with their instincts and even good ones can quite often but so far Mitch seems to be nowhere near that level.  He can't put a game away on his own.

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2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Only guy I can think of is Evan Engram but Engram is hurt a lot. He had a chance at Colquitt but he went to Minnesota. I've been pounding the "O'Donnell is horrible" table for years now. There's a guy that I like a lot in the draft in 2020: Braden Mann from Texas A&M.

I don't get the distress over O'Donnell.  He's slightly above average statistically so we're not talkin' a bottom of the barrel guy type.

I'm not implying we shouldn't always be bringing in new talent to challenge him but we have far bigger issues to be concerned with than a punter whose basically average.

We also have some TEs and another one won't do us any good if our QB isn't even throwing to them.

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2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Everyone figures Bears will gas in altitude in Sept. heat  like most do so a fast start is important for Bears.

 

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

So if you [Denver] can pressure MT and gas the defense you can win.  The team is on a razor's edge and everyone is pressing due to media and fan pressure and people upset over game 1.

The forecast for Sunday is temps in the low 90s which will mean the temp on the field will be close to or over 100 degrees and it will be drier than a popcorn fart.  Humidity likely in the teens.  The air will be thin......very, very thin.

Short of Denver crapping the bed the Bears best shot is to get a reasonable lead, keep the Broncos defense on the field and our defense off the field.  We'll also need to rotate the big boys in the DL and the Edge Guys a lot.

If we can't do that there's a better than even chance we fly home Sunday night 0-2 making the turd buckets at SI who said 7-9 start looking more right than wrong.  This is a turn around game and Nagy needs to treat it that way.

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44 minutes ago, soulman said:

I don't get the distress over O'Donnell.  He's slightly above average statistically so we're not talkin' a bottom of the barrel guy type.

I'm not implying we shouldn't always be bringing in new talent to challenge him but we have far bigger issues to be concerned with than a punter whose basically average.

We also have some TEs and another one won't do us any good if our QB isn't even throwing to them.

Statistically he has never been above average. He’s always been at average to bottom 5. But he has gotten better every year. 

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

Championships are won by QBs who can still do it without all of that because very rarely are you gonna have that whole package and the kind of defense we have.

Many put Cutler down but until the wheels fell off the defense he'd won 80% of his starts when the defense held an opponent to 20 points or less and he's also in the top 20% of all QBs in 4th Q wins and he did that with little to no offensive support.  As bad as he could be at times there was still an element in him that knew how to go out and win some games.

While we may perceive Mitch to be an upgrade over Cutler at this point in his career he's really not.  In fact he's been almost as guilty as Cutler of having caused some critical turnovers even with far better coaching and support.

I'm not pining for the days of Jay Cutler again but it's time to at least temper all of what we were told this summer about his progress and look at reality.  He has great physical ability but he's a very immature QB at this stage of the game and IMHO much of that can be attributed to his obsession with being perfect.  That's what causes him to hold the ball too long or doubt what he sees or his own ability to make the throw needed.

When he can finally relax and just play football he's shows signs of improvement until he doesn't.  Unless he can get over that and become at reasonably consistent and dare I say average or slightly better than average each game we're gonna be as dependent as ever on defensive scoring to win games because he'll keep failing to get his unit into the end zone. 

Great QBs will kill you with their instincts and even good ones can quite often but so far Mitch seems to be nowhere near that level.  He can't put a game away on his own.

I think you pointed out something really important. Mitch being hard on himself and trying to be perfect. That is not a great mentality to have. It puts so much pressure on you as a player and you can’t just play. He rarely looks like he’s having fun out there.

if he can’t over this mental hurdle he’ll always be in trouble.

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3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Only guy I can think of is Evan Engram but Engram is hurt a lot. He had a chance at Colquitt but he went to Minnesota. I've been pounding the "O'Donnell is horrible" table for years now. There's a guy that I like a lot in the draft in 2020: Braden Mann from Texas A&M.

Maybe Gesicki or try and offer so.ething enticing to Wash for Vdavis. I hv no idea what's truly avail but we have plenty of assets to get a diffmaking TE ...nothing top shelf but solid 

There has to be some rugby or soccer or aussie rules prospect somwhere rite ??! Bring whomever in and light a 🔥 under odonnells a** NOW 

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1 hour ago, soulman said:

I don't get the distress over O'Donnell.  He's slightly above average statistically so we're not talkin' a bottom of the barrel guy type.

I'm not implying we shouldn't always be bringing in new talent to challenge him but we have far bigger issues to be concerned with than a punter whose basically average.

We also have some TEs and another one won't do us any good if our QB isn't even throwing to them.

Field position throughout the course of a game, esp in ugly slug it out ones, is a huge factor ...esp with our suffocating D. We need someone to boom kicks and even flip field position from time to time. I can't remember the last time odonnell flipped FP ! Dude never drop in nice directional kicks either  ...he is a weakness

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3 hours ago, dll2000 said:

 

Patriots don't seem to need a TE or any one thing.  They morph to whatever they need to be as situation and personnel dictates theirs or opponents.  Nagy needs to study their offense and how they adjust situationally. What they do seems really plug and play.

 

 

They have tom effingterrific 

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