Week 2 GDT: CHI (0-1) @ DEN (0-1)

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

I understand the thought process but it's never going to happen. Now, Chris Harris? Very possible. I think he's ready to move on, and fair play to him. 

What are your reasons why it wont? Just curious?

[germ-x]

Man I think this win could’ve been a huge momentum swing for this team.  I still think even with the loss it can be with all the mistakes and the blown roughing the passer call on Chubb, but overall I just don’t think this is a good football team.  

My thoughts through 2 games.

1.  This pass rush is very concerning.  It was supposed to be the teams biggest strength with Miller/Chubb.  Instead it’s been pathetic, like worst in the NFL bad through 2 games.  It’s not a situation where their even getting pressure either, Carr/Trubisky by NFL standards haven’t been touched.

2. The passing game (like the last 4 years) does nothing vertically.  When you can’t/won’t do this it severely limits an offense.  It doesn’t even need to be successful all of the time, but at least the threat would be there.

3. Bolles has been horrendous and it very well was the difference in this game.  I get he was going against Mack often today, but it’s clear he is clueless.  He literally never has his hands inside, he’s alway hugging.  He doesn’t understand angles/positioning.  Quite honestly he could’ve been called for holds 10x just today.  After the 4th one he became timid and played like his hands were made of stone....and even then he was wrapping his arms around defenders.

4. Scangerello doesn’t seem up to the task, thus far.  It’s game 2 calling plays, but man none of his play action, screens, trickery type plays even have a chance.  Denver isn’t successful unless it’s basic football.

5. Fangio is regarded as an elite defensive coach and coordinator, but this defense is as bad as it’s been under McDaniels.  I get from a point standpoint it isn’t bad, but the Raiders and Bears offenses are probably going to end up at the bottom of the league.  Unlike Scangerello, Fangio wants to play basic 4 man rush defense and doesn’t have the talent, especially at ILB vs both the run/pass to make that successful.

6. I actually do like Denver’s young skill talent.  There isn’t any depth, but Freeman looks like a quality RB with Lindsay as a nice change of pace homerun hitter type.  Sutton also looks improved and seems to have the ability to be a very solid #2 maybe even borderline #1.  Fant will have ups and downs, but he’s going to get a ton of experience this year and I feel develops into a very good player.

7. Simmons has improved thus far this year and is a better tackler and making plays in coverage.  Jackson will be a hell of a signing as well.  

[lomaxgrUK]

2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

What are your reasons why it wont? Just curious?

Miller isn't going to leave via FA next year, CHJ is.

Elway has had a few bad years now and he isn't going to pull a Miami and blow the whole thing up. Von hasn't been productive enough the first 2 games but we aren't getting rid his proven production unless we get a ridiculous offer.

 

[AKRNA]

6 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I understand the thought process but it's never going to happen. Now, Chris Harris? Very possible. I think he's ready to move on, and fair play to him. 

CHJ also. 

I'd be curious how the players reacted in the locker room after the game. I'll guarantee the staff is watching that closely. 

[germ-x]

11 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Miller isn't going to leave via FA next year, CHJ is.

Elway has had a few bad years now and he isn't going to pull a Miami and blow the whole thing up. Von hasn't been productive enough the first 2 games but we aren't getting rid his proven production unless we get a ridiculous offer.

 

Don’t disagree, but with Denver’s play and the fact that they can’t find a QB he should’ve been moved a few years ago.  Denver has basically tried to hold onto what they can and go through a rebuild post 2015.  In the process they’ve essentially wasted some really good defenses.  

[Broncofan]

Just now, germ-x said:

Don’t disagree, but with Denver’s play and the fact that they can’t find a QB he should’ve been moved a few years ago.  Denver has basically tried to hold onto what they can and go through a rebuild post 2015.  In the process they’ve essentially wasted some really good defenses.  

To do that Elway and Ellis have to admit 2020 and maybe even 2021 is the target for contention.   That's a tall order for Elway / Ellis to admit publicly, even if most of us can see it.

[DiehardBronxFan]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

This is beyond absurd. Denver HAD THE LEAD with 30 seconds left. That was the percentage play. They were winning the game. Speculating they might have won the game in OT, based on nothing, is not the same as them actually having the lead with their defense on the field.

I gotta agree - and I was screaming it at the time - the smart play is to go for 1, at home, at altitude.  Yes, you had the lead with 30 seconds left.  That’s not the point.  Point is you DIDN’T have the lead with “31 seconds left” . ( I realize clock wasn’t running, but point is, they were behind before they converted the 2 point attempt).  So Fangio was, in fact, putting the game in the hands of the Offense.  And an Offense that had run how many plays inside the 10 yard line - 10? More? and had 1 touchdown and 1 pick to show for it?.  Sure. ballsy play, shows confidence in your team , blah blah.  Everybody likes it in hindsight because it worked.  But is was the low probability call and an “against the book” call.  

Fair enough to say you like it and supported it.  To each their own.  But to call those defending the high probability play “absurd” is, well, absurd😜

Separately, the roughing the passer call on Chubb probably cost us the game.  Bears had the terrible call on them early in the game as well, but timing on this one was a killer.  Don’t know how you’re supposed to hit the QB anymore - those were both textbook perfect hits.  Might as well just play flag with the QB’s at this point.

tough tough loss.  But they got outplayed, and outcoached, again.  Progress from Monday. Some positive signs from some of our young players, but overall, just Butt ugly.  Hopefully, they continue to progress - especially the coaches. Only thing worth hoping for for the year at this point.

BTW, if anybody would have told us our defense would have zero sacks and zero takeaways after 2 games, we’d all have said they’d be 0-2.  So yea, the offense has been pathetic, but the D was always going to have to carry the team early, and they aren’t.

speaking of which, since we don’t seem to want to make rushing the passer a priority, any chance of trading Von for Trent Williams?  I’d make that trade in a heartbeat.

[germ-x]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

To do that Elway and Ellis have to admit 2020 and maybe even 2021 is the target for contention.   That's a tall order for Elway / Ellis to admit publicly, even if most of us can see it.

Understandable.  But by the time this team can even contend for the playoffs Miller will be on the decline....if he isn’t already now considering his play the last 2 games.

He has drawn a bunch of double teams/chips...but he also has had zero impact on the game, which is unusual even with the amount of attention.  

Edited September 16, 2019 by germ-x

[DiehardBronxFan]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Re: the XP - sure, we would have gone to OT.   And yes, the CHI D was gassed.

But here's the thing - it only takes 1 play to turn that script.   And the CHI D was gassed then for the 2 pointer.   It's probably why Fuller couldn't keep up with Sanders like he did on the pick the drive before.   I cannot criticize the 2-pointer.

Anyone else think we're a better team than CHI?   I doubt that.   We have a chance to take a 1-pt lead, with only 1 TO and 31 secs left.  That should be more than enough.  The Chubb penalty is a heartbreaker, my ONLY objection is prevent D and off coverage on 4th and 15 - TOO EASY to make a throw and then let WR go to ground.    But that's such an improbable L..   

You take a 1-point lead with 31 secs left and 1 TO left - that's a 95+ percent win probability.  4th and 15 at your own 40 and needing a FG with 8 secs left - 95 percent W probability and I'd say 99 if you play press coverage and don't allow an easy uncontested catch.  But the 2-point call isn't the problem.   Just my 2 cents.

2 point call wasn’t the problem, because we made it.  But I agree with everything else.  Despise the prevent, deep coverage, 3-4 man rush.  Hate it hate it hate it.  And the phantom RTP penalty on Chubb probably costs us the game.  But man I gotta say - props to the Chicago D.  They’re the real deal.

[thebestever6]

5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

To do that Elway and Ellis have to admit 2020 and maybe even 2021 is the target for contention.   That's a tall order for Elway / Ellis to admit publicly, even if most of us can see it.

If a team offers a first and change it has to be considered.I get  Von was instrumental in a super bowl win . And is a franchise legend. With CHJ leaving in the offseason dont get sentimental. 

0 and 2 is a steep hole for any team to climb out of much less this one. I don't think it's  as far out as people think. Tony Gonzalez got traded for a 2nd.

[Broncofan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

If a team offers a first and change it has to be considered.I get  Von was instrumental in a super bowl win . And is a franchise legend. With CHJ leaving in the offseason dont get sentimental. 

0 and 2 is a steep hole for any team to climb out of much less this one. I don't think it's  as far out as people think. Tony Gonzalez got traded for a 2nd.

Tony Gonzalez was 34 years old, on a team that was literally in cap hell.    

I actually think a trade of Von would help our future immensely - but the optics with Elway/Ellis just make it impossible, unless it's better than Mack's haul (not a 1st and 1st/2nd swap, but 2 outright 1sts).

P.S.  That W by CHI really helps right their ship to make the playoffs.   And sink the 1st round pick they send to OAK into the 20's.  At least OAK doesn't look like their 2nd rounder will be going the mid 30's lol.

[BroncoBruin]

It will never be a full tear-down because it's not in Elway's nature to ever do that. They'll keep Von because on paper he's still the best player, and the undisputed face of the franchise who helps fans stay interested in what's been maybe the most boring team in football over the last four years.

 

[germ-x]

Elway and Company have essentially tried to bandaid this team into contention since 2015.  It’s time to embrace the fact that this team lacks talent across the board and make decisions accordingly.  That does not mean a Miami Dolphins type fire sale, but making decisions with 2021 in mind.

How to go about that, I don’t know.  After seeing Lock in person, I don’t think he’s the answer at QB, but personally I’m not that big a fan of the top QB prospects in this draft.  It is a draft loaded with trench talent.  If it were me, I think I’d go that route in both the draft and FA.

[DiehardBronxFan]

1 hour ago, AKRNA said:

Strange that you should have to point out the blatantly obvious isn't it?

Sorry, but you are pointing out the blatantly obvious to a straw man argument.  Sure, they’d rather have the lead.  That’s not the point.  The point is whether you should have gone for the 2 in the first place, with the poor odds of conversion and Denver’s abysmal offensive performance within the 10 yard line.  Again, room for disagreement - but anything but “blatantly obvious”.  To paint it that way against your own straw man argument is, frankly, disrespectful. I know you know better than that. 

[DiehardBronxFan]

1 hour ago, AKRNA said:

Just a coupla' things.

1st, I loved the call. Sends a great message to the offense. 

2nd, I'm pretty sure this is the 1st time in my life I've heard a coach criticized when he went for two and made it to take the lead with under a minute left. I'd imagine the last time also.

Plenty of critics when they don't convert but when they convert?

 

 

So, whether they convert or not changes whether we should criticize the call or not??  So we should all just react in hindsight?