Mind Character Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said: I want this 49rs defense so bad. They have great speed, they know their angles and know how to tackle. I told you guys awhile ago I’m supremely impressed how they can control the opposing qb. The construction of their defense is a case study in high investment, high pay-off: Their Dominant DLine where which is the spoon that stirs the drinK: 2nd Overall Pick (Nick Bosa) 7th Overall Pick (Deforest Buckner) 17th Overall Pick (Arik Armstead) 23rd Overall Pick (Dee Ford) 3rd Overall Pick (Solomon Thomas) Then, all we need in the secondary is: the best CB by all metrics and analytics over the last 10 years for a FA bargain basement contract (Richard Sherman) A first Round Hybrid-Safety (Jimmie Ward) A 2nd Round Hybrid Safety (Jaquiski Tartt) A 3rd Round Long CB2 (Ahkello Witherspoon) LBs: Fill-in with cheap inexpensive young players Corrected: @LETSGOBROWNIES Kwon Alexander is high investment as well. ------ Edited January 20, 2020 by Mind Character 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mind Character said: The construction of their defense is a case study in high investment, high pay-off: Their Dominant DLine where which is the spoon that stirs the drinK: 2nd Overall Pick (Nick Bosa) 7th Overall Pick (Deforest Buckner) 17th Overall Pick (Arik Armstead) 23rd Overall Pick (Dee Ford) 3rd Overall Pick (Solomon Thomas) Then, all we need in the secondary is: the best CB by all metrics and analytics over the last 10 years for a FA bargain basement contract (Richard Sherman) A first Round Hybrid-Safety (Jimmie Ward) A 2nd Round Hybrid Safety (Jaquiski Tartt) A 3rd Round Long CB2 (Ahkello Witherspoon) LBs: Fill-in with cheap inexpensive young players ------ Kwon ain’t cheap my guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mind Character said: The construction of their defense is a case study in high investment, high pay-off: Their Dominant DLine where which is the spoon that stirs the drinK: 2nd Overall Pick (Nick Bosa) 7th Overall Pick (Deforest Buckner) 17th Overall Pick (Arik Armstead) 23rd Overall Pick (Dee Ford) 3rd Overall Pick (Solomon Thomas) Then, all we need in the secondary is: the best CB by all metrics and analytics over the last 10 years for a FA bargain basement contract (Richard Sherman) A first Round Hybrid-Safety (Jimmie Ward) A 2nd Round Hybrid Safety (Jaquiski Tartt) A 3rd Round Long CB2 (Ahkello Witherspoon) LBs: Fill-in with cheap inexpensive young players ------ Only 3 or 4 of those players are premier players in and of themselves. Witherspoon sucks and got benched, Ward was hurt all year, Solomon Thomas is a backup that almost got traded for peanuts, Armstead is average. @Bonanza23is right to want their coaches. We have several pieces in place WE NEED SOME DAMN COACHING 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Kwon ain’t cheap my guy. Oof..... wow... I totally forgot he's on their team too... Lol.. well there you go...more high investment as he started 8 games... 28 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Only 3 or 4 of those players are premier players in and of themselves. Witherspoon sucks and got benched, Ward was hurt all year, Solomon Thomas is a backup that almost got traded for peanuts, Armstead is average. @Bonanza23is right to want their coaches. We have several pieces in place WE NEED SOME DAMN COACHING Coaching deserves a ton of credit, but as 49ers followers will tell you it's mostly attributed to the players individual and collective talent over coaching, as well as the favorable positions their potent Offensive Style puts the defense in when it comes to ball-control and situational context. Players get injured; it's not about everyone on the field being a Premier Player. When the weakest link on the field is a CB2 3rd Round investment like Witherspoon with flash low lows and high highs that speaks to a particular high investment construction of the defensive roster. Even still, they definitely have had more than 3 or 4 (at least 5) players as you suggest perform like Premier Players this year including: 1.) Arik Armstead premier play this season (10 Sacks; 14 TFLs; High QB Pressure Rate) 2.) Deforest Buckner (7.5 Sacks; 11 TFLs; High QB Pressure Rate; High Tackle Rate) 3.) Nick Bosa (No Data Citation needed) 4.) Jimmie Ward has been injured but has Started 13 Games with an 84.2+ Grade and high production making him a top 5 Safety by all advanced metrics. 5.) Richard Sherman (Having his highest graded year in his career) --- That's 5 premier player contributions; the next grouping of 3 players Dee Ford, Jacquiski Tartt, Kwon Alexander (Started 8 games), are high investment players that have made huge impacts at various points in the season... --- Fred Warner was also a 3rd round selection --- That makes 8 Players out of 11 players on the field. Compared to the rest of the league and the league's direct/indirect investment in defensive players that's a rare roster construction, especially when considering where the vast majority of players were selected in the draft, as well as the Big Money top Free agent contracts others received. Edited January 20, 2020 by Mind Character 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Oof..... wow... I totally forgot he's on their team too... Lol.. well there you go...more high investment as he started 8 games... Coaching deserves a ton of credit, but as 49ers followers will tell you it's mostly attributed to the players individual and collective talent over coaching, as well as the favorable positions their potent Offensive Style puts the defense in when it comes to ball-control and situational context. Players get injured; it's not about everyone on the field being a Premier Player. When the weakest link on the field is a CB2 3rd Round investment like Witherspoon with flash low lows and high highs that speaks to a particular high investment construction of the defensive roster. Even still, they definitely have had more than 3 or 4 (at least 5) players as you suggest perform like Premier Players this year including: 1.) Arik Armstead premier play this season (10 Sacks; 14 TFLs; High QB Pressure Rate) 2.) Deforest Buckner (7.5 Sacks; 11 TFLs; High QB Pressure Rate; High Tackle Rate) 3.) Nick Bosa (No Data Citation needed) 4.) Jimmie Ward has been injured but has Started 13 Games with an 84.2+ Grade and high production making him a top 5 Safety by all advanced metrics. 5.) Richard Sherman (Having his highest graded year in his career) --- That's 5 premier player contributions; the next grouping of 3 players Dee Ford, Jacquiski Tartt, Kwon Alexander (Started 8 games), are high investment players that have made huge impacts at various points in the season... --- Fred Warner was also a 3rd round selection --- That makes 8 Players out of 11 players on the field. Compared to the rest of the league and the league's direct/indirect investment in defensive players that's a rare roster construction, especially when considering where the vast majority of players were selected in the draft, as well as the Big Money top Free agent contracts others received. Their defense is a ferrari that has managed not to **** itself over the course of 18 games. Its the most talented defense of all my time watching football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, pnies20 said: Only 3 or 4 of those players are premier players in and of themselves. Witherspoon sucks and got benched, Ward was hurt all year, Solomon Thomas is a backup that almost got traded for peanuts, Armstead is average. Spoon definitely sucked it up on the back end of the year. Brutal to watch. And Thomas is barely a back up. Ward missed the first two games of the year, hasn't missed a game since, and has played at a very high level all year. The only thing he doesn't do though, which is kind of annoying, is create turnovers. But still, he doesn't miss tackles, and he's good in coverage. And he hits hard...which, you know, is just fun. AA is definitely not average. He may be a little closer to "average" with regards to his pass rush when compared to other pass rushing defensive end, but it's his all around game and versatility that makes him stand out because he's always been considered one of the stronger run defenders at the edge position. 10 sacks this year is probably a high water mark for him though. I'd think in truth he's closer to a 8 sack guy. But still, 8 sacks and great run defense is a lot better than average. Kind of Trey Flowers-ish when he was with NE. Plus, he plays multiple positions on the line. He'll play out in the wide 9, he'll play a 3 tech and he'll play a 1 tech. That kind of versatility is huge as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Forge said: Spoon definitely sucked it up on the back end of the year. Brutal to watch. And Thomas is barely a back up. Ward missed the first two games of the year, hasn't missed a game since, and has played at a very high level all year. The only thing he doesn't do though, which is kind of annoying, is create turnovers. But still, he doesn't miss tackles, and he's good in coverage. And he hits hard...which, you know, is just fun. AA is definitely not average. He may be a little closer to "average" with regards to his pass rush when compared to other pass rushing defensive end, but it's his all around game and versatility that makes him stand out because he's always been considered one of the stronger run defenders at the edge position. 10 sacks this year is probably a high water mark for him though. I'd think in truth he's closer to a 8 sack guy. But still, 8 sacks and great run defense is a lot better than average. Kind of Trey Flowers-ish when he was with NE. Plus, he plays multiple positions on the line. He'll play out in the wide 9, he'll play a 3 tech and he'll play a 1 tech. That kind of versatility is huge as well. Arik Armstead is a product of the success around him and good coaching/scheme. Buckner on the other hand... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Arik Armstead is a product of the success around him and good coaching/scheme. Buckner on the other hand... Arik Amstead was good before this season, but it was a different role. You have to remember that the first few years of his career, he was a 3-4 DE, not a 4-3 DE, which is a vastly different job. Last year, he played time as a 1 tech & 3 tech, along with end. The 1 tech in particular is just a vastly different job than the one he has currently. So it's been a weird sort of career to try and figure out what he is. Sometimes that matters. Remember, Jerry Hughes was a bust before he landed in Buffalo in a good scheme for him. Sometimes that stuff is important. But I definitely would not consider Armstead average. Certainly not this year at any rate. LIS, I wouldn't expect this level of pass rush production from him in the future, I'd expect something more around the 8 mark, but his all around play is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Let me clarify... Yes the 49ers have lots of talent but it’s a perfect storm of coaching, talent and scheme fit for these players. That’s what makes it slexical. Not just throwing a bunch of high picks at it . Edited January 20, 2020 by pnies20 Slexical??? Great job autocorrect 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Just now, Forge said: Arik Amstead was good before this season, but it was a different role. You have to remember that the first few years of his career, he was a 3-4 DE, not a 4-3 DE, which is a vastly different job. Last year, he played time as a 1 tech & 3 tech, along with end. The 1 tech in particular is just a vastly different job than the one he has currently. So it's been a weird sort of career to try and figure out what he is. Sometimes that matters. Remember, Jerry Hughes was a bust before he landed in Buffalo in a good scheme for him. Sometimes that stuff is important. But I definitely would not consider Armstead average. Certainly not this year at any rate. LIS, I wouldn't expect this level of pass rush production from him in the future, I'd expect something more around the 8 mark, but his all around play is very good. I agree. When he was drafted, I couldn’t believe they were trying to make him a 5. He’s playing well this year but a lot has to do with what I said above. My point isn’t whether or not if someone is a superstar it’s more about the process of making him a cog in a well oiled machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Let me clarify... Yes the 49ers have lots of talent but it’s a perfect storm of coaching, talent and scheme fit for these players. That’s what makes it slexical. Not just throwing a bunch of high picks at it . Oh for sure. Way more than just the investment capital. Everything has to come together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) @Forge Do you think you guys will resign Armstead and/or Ward? It would definitely be nice if we could sign one of them. Edited January 20, 2020 by DawgX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, DawgX said: @Forge Do you think you guys will resign Armstead and/or Ward? It would definitely be nice if we could sign one of them. Armstead, yes. I don't think he goes anywhere unless we tag & trade him. He's going to be expensive, so it could be tricky, but I really don't think he goes anywhere this year. Ward is so much harder to get a beat on. The fact of the matter is, he's always had talent, but this is the first time he's managed to really stay reasonably healthy and playing his actual position (his first 4 years in the league he was a cornerback for the most part, not a safety). Also, someone like Manny Sanders still matters to this team, and I could see how we could afford one but not the other. Ward is insanely cheap this year, and he deserves a raise, admittedly. But I'm not signing him long term, I just can't. So if I'm the niners, I'm basically letting him test the market. Hoping that he falls through the cracks because people don't buy his play outside of this team given his prior history, and we can get him back on a reasonable 1-2 year prove it deal where he can show it wasn't a fluke and hit the free agent market running the next year or so. But I'm not giving him 4-5 years, nor do I think any other team should. He's an awesome complimentary piece for this team - doesn't miss tackles, he and Tartt have amazing chemistry and communication (they should, they've been playing in the same secondary since high school as they were on the same team lol) and he knows his role / position great. He does all the little things to keep the defense humming. But we also have a third round safety from a couple of years ago who has some starting experience and has been marinating on the bench. Can't pay everyone big money, and if there's someone who goes, I feel like Ward is likely to be the guy as we could be comfortable with Moore sliding into the starting lineup. So if I had just to just throw random 1-10 scale numbers out there? Probably 2/10 that AA hits the FA market, maybe a 3/10 that he hits the franchise tag trade market. Ward is closer to 8 / 10 that he hits the market. Especially given we have much higher priority signings and extensions to work on (Kittle, Buck, AA all need deals this off season) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 53 minutes ago, DawgX said: @Forge Do you think you guys will resign Armstead and/or Ward? It would definitely be nice if we could sign one of them. Wed be more likely to get Thomas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: Their defense is a ferrari that has managed not to **** itself over the course of 18 games. Its the most talented defense of all my time watching football. Have you only been watching football for like 3years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.