Jump to content
lavar703

2020 Draft thread

Recommended Posts

On 12/10/2019 at 9:09 PM, Thaiphoon said:

Yup. We'd have the #1 pick right now.

Geez man, all the Bottom Feeders have won one of two meaningless games. The way it works .! In fact- we're lucky? we didn't win the Packer game. I had visions of Keenum coming in and being successful. I thought Haskins was out for sure since he was hobblin' ' round .  

Edited by RSkinGM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, offbyone said:

There is a huge massive difference between investing a #15 pick into someone as opposed to the #1 overall pick.

The point remains. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

Geez man, all the Bottom Feeders have won one of two meaningless games. The way it works .! In fact- we're lucky? we didn't win the Packer game. I had visions of Keenum coming in and being successful. I thought Haskins was out for sure since he was hobblin' ' round .  

My point was that had we stopped with Miami and lost those other two we'd have the #1 pick. Let others win meaningless games. We win those and it costs us dearly for years to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, offbyone said:

There is a huge massive difference between investing a #15 pick into someone as opposed to the #1 overall pick.

True, but it's still investing a 1st round pick (top half at that) in a project QB that has only played one year. Now, his ceiling may be higher than the other QBs from last draft, but the problem with ceilings is that you're not sure you're gonna get there. That's why you want someone with a high ceiling AND a high floor. Haskins has the former, but not the latter.

Right now, the guy is Tim Tebow. Accuracy issues on easy throws. Hard to diagnose defenses,etc... but has some of the same intangibles and ends up (as long as the defense and run game are on) on teams that are winning games at the end.

Can he get better? I think so. And I think he will get better. 

But right now, IMHO, he's the comp of Tim Tebow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

True, but it's still investing a 1st round pick (top half at that) in a project QB that has only played one year. Now, his ceiling may be higher than the other QBs from last draft, but the problem with ceilings is that you're not sure you're gonna get there. That's why you want someone with a high ceiling AND a high floor. Haskins has the former, but not the latter.

Right now, the guy is Tim Tebow. Accuracy issues on easy throws. Hard to diagnose defenses,etc... but has some of the same intangibles and ends up (as long as the defense and run game are on) on teams that are winning games at the end.

Can he get better? I think so. And I think he will get better. 

But right now, IMHO, he's the comp of Tim Tebow.

I think that comparison is ludicrous.  Do you remember Tim Tebow's delivery?  His body type is completely different.  He liked to run the ball like he was a power running back.  These are massively different guys.

Secondly, you guys are out of your mind if you are comparing the investment value of the #1 pick vs the #15.  Night and day.  You miss on a player with the #1 pick and it is a franchise crushing disaster.  If you miss with the #15, it stinks, but not the end of the world especially when you consider most 1st round QBs are misses.  If Haskins proves to be a bust it will feel a lot closer to missing on Doctson which isn't really much of a story.  You miss with the #1 overall pick and you are in the history books along with the likes of the Jemarcus Russell debacle.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, offbyone said:

I think that comparison is ludicrous.  Do you remember Tim Tebow's delivery?  His body type is completely different.  He liked to run the ball like he was a power running back.  These are massively different guys.

"Overly-technical analysis, table for one?"

Notice I didn't talk about body types or deliveries? Because all QBs are different in those respects (even the ones that are similar). I was talking about the accuracy issues and the fact that he seemed to win games in spite of those issues while riding a rushing attack and a good defensive effort. He has pretty good intangibles. But also like Tebow, he cannot see the field right now. But in a pinch can deliver a ball deep (just like Tim did on occasion). And he does pull his head down too early sometimes. That's why I'm comping him there right now. 

Know why I think he will improve out of Tebow-land? Because he doesn't have the same limitations in terms of delivery and he doesn't focus on running the ball a la Tebow or RG3. 

 

Quote

Secondly, you guys are out of your mind if you are comparing the investment value of the #1 pick vs the #15.  Night and day.  You miss on a player with the #1 pick and it is a franchise crushing disaster.  If you miss with the #15, it stinks, but not the end of the world especially when you consider most 1st round QBs are misses.  If Haskins proves to be a bust it will feel a lot closer to missing on Doctson which isn't really much of a story.  You miss with the #1 overall pick and you are in the history books along with the likes of the Jemarcus Russell debacle.

I'm not debating the fact that it hurts more to miss on #1 than on #15. I'm pointing out that we didn't have the #1 pick. We had the #15 pick. And while it hurts less to not hit on #15, we didn't have #1, we had #15. And until we burned a 2020 2nd rounder to take Sweat, it was the only 2019 1st rounder we had. And just because it hurts less for a team to miss on #15, we can't afford to miss on these picks with the track record of our team.

So yes, your point about #1 vs #15 is noted. But remember, we didnt have both. We had the #15. It was our highest pick in the draft, and we always need to make that one count.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5Gazf-OmVs87Fz8jmBwN

If you want to squint a little, you can see successes in the previous year when he beat out Burrow for the backup job (and beat Michigan in the Big House), and in the spring when he beat out Burrow for the starting job and forced him to transfer. 

He was pretty much outstanding every time he had a chance to be. Unlike Burrow, who really is more of a one-year wonder, having gotten beaten out and then having been really mediocre last year before the huge breakout this year.

I take your point, because we do all agree Haskins has less experience than just about any QB ever to come into the NFL — but I think the difference with Burrow is that he had that really unimpressive full season at LSU. Which really creates a possibility that this season is a little bit of an outlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

"Overly-technical analysis, table for one?"

Notice I didn't talk about body types or deliveries? Because all QBs are different in those respects (even the ones that are similar). I was talking about the accuracy issues and the fact that he seemed to win games in spite of those issues while riding a rushing attack and a good defensive effort. He has pretty good intangibles. But also like Tebow, he cannot see the field right now. But in a pinch can deliver a ball deep (just like Tim did on occasion). And he does pull his head down too early sometimes. That's why I'm comping him there right now. 

Know why I think he will improve out of Tebow-land? Because he doesn't have the same limitations in terms of delivery and he doesn't focus on running the ball a la Tebow or RG3. 

 

I'm not debating the fact that it hurts more to miss on #1 than on #15. I'm pointing out that we didn't have the #1 pick. We had the #15 pick. And while it hurts less to not hit on #15, we didn't have #1, we had #15. And until we burned a 2020 2nd rounder to take Sweat, it was the only 2019 1st rounder we had. And just because it hurts less for a team to miss on #15, we can't afford to miss on these picks with the track record of our team.

So yes, your point about #1 vs #15 is noted. But remember, we didnt have both. We had the #15. It was our highest pick in the draft, and we always need to make that one count.

I just don't see the Tebow comparison at all so it is hard for me to swallow.  They are night and day from how they play to their personalities.

We needed a qb, there was a potential franchise qb at #15, it was a solid value move and filled a need.  People can disagree about how ready he was and if can be it, but the overwhelming consensus was he was a 1st round qb.  Sure it would be nicer to use pick #25, but as you point out we had pick 15 he was there, we didn't trade up, I just don't see this as a bad move.  While the odds on the qb machine are low, you have to play to win.  

Now I think Burrow at #1 I think is a way riskier move.  He is currently at the top of the hype machine and maybe his play deserves it, but his lack of experience and up and down history makes him a higher risk at #1 overall than haskins at #15.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5Gazf-OmVs87Fz8jmBwN

You didn't read my entire statement.  Burrow actually left Ohio State because of Haskins.  His first year in the LSU offense was dreadful.  57.8 completion percentage, not even 2900 passing yards and 16 TD/5 INT.  They bring in a new assistant coach and do one of the most radical scheme changes that I can remember, and Burrow's completion percentage jumps 20 percentage points, he nearly has 5000 yards passing and he tripled his TD output, while only throwing one more INT in 60 more attempts.  

I'm extremely wary of the stark differences between the two seasons, and I would not be trading up for him.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, e16bball said:

If you want to squint a little, you can see successes in the previous year when he beat out Burrow for the backup job (and beat Michigan in the Big House), and in the spring when he beat out Burrow for the starting job and forced him to transfer. 

He was pretty much outstanding every time he had a chance to be. Unlike Burrow, who really is more of a one-year wonder, having gotten beaten out and then having been really mediocre last year before the huge breakout this year.

I take your point, because we do all agree Haskins has less experience than just about any QB ever to come into the NFL — but I think the difference with Burrow is that he had that really unimpressive full season at LSU. Which really creates a possibility that this season is a little bit of an outlier.

Exactly my point.  I think he's somewhere in the middle of the two seasons.  Would I draft him?  Absolutely.  Would I get crazy and trade up and give up a king's ransom for him?  Absolutely not.  I remember the year Winston and Mariota went at the top of the draft, and I think Burrow's going to at least clear two floors above them, so to speak.  But I'm not sure he's going to be elite.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

You didn't read my entire statement.  Burrow actually left Ohio State because of Haskins.  His first year in the LSU offense was dreadful.  57.8 completion percentage, not even 2900 passing yards and 16 TD/5 INT.  They bring in a new assistant coach and do one of the most radical scheme changes that I can remember, and Burrow's completion percentage jumps 20 percentage points, he nearly has 5000 yards passing and he tripled his TD output, while only throwing one more INT in 60 more attempts.  

I'm extremely wary of the stark differences between the two seasons, and I would not be trading up for him.  

But that's part of my point about Haskins. Could he not be an outlier too? Perfect scheme fit in a conference that OSU has dominated for a looooong time. They've had plenty of QBs come through and show success all the while do we see it translate at the next level?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

But that's part of my point about Haskins. Could he not be an outlier too? Perfect scheme fit in a conference that OSU has dominated for a looooong time. They've had plenty of QBs come through and show success all the while do we see it translate at the next level?

Maybe but what’s to say the environment he got drafted to simply isn’t conducive to development? I mean, if we drafted Drew Lock would he be playing well here or would Sprinkle just be dropping all the passes that Noah Fant is catching? I guess that’s kinda the way I look at things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Maybe but what’s to say the environment he got drafted to simply isn’t conducive to development? I mean, if we drafted Drew Lock would he be playing well here or would Sprinkle just be dropping all the passes that Noah Fant is catching? I guess that’s kinda the way I look at things. 

Sure. It all really comes down to those of us that have faith in Haskins and those of us that don't or never did. It's perception, I get that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeT14 said:

Sure. It all really comes down to those of us that have faith in Haskins and those of us that don't or never did. It's perception, I get that.

Nothing wrong with that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

My point was that had we stopped with Miami and lost those other two we'd have the #1 pick. Let others win meaningless games. We win those and it costs us dearly for years to come.

Point taken, but ALL the losing teams can say that -- The stinkin' Giants won a meaningless game -- against us ! You can't use that as an argument that we could/ should have the overall #1 pick. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×