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How bad are the Miami Dolphins?


Bolts223

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39 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

Great teams: Pats, Chiefs, Rams, Saints (At least before Brees went down, probably not anymore)

Good teams: Bears, Ravens, Chargers, Eagles, Cowboys, Texans, etc

Cool. Now that I have your list, you just listed 10 of your best teams in the league. Of which the Dolphins per their schedule are playing 4 of those 10 teams in the league through their first four games of the season. Which is what I stated before. A young team with a rookie HC without much confidence and swagger to this point against three 10+ year veteran coaches to start, two of which have won Super Bowls. That’s a bad schedule to catch.

In terms of your list in general I don’t agree with it. Don't think the Bears with Trubisky belong in the top 10 over a Green Bay team that beat them along with the Vikings, a team that has an elite QB and one of the best defenses this season.

Beyond that I think the Ravens are on another level over all those “good” teams you have listed except the Cowboys and Packers- that you don't have listed.

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4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Cool. Now that I have your list, you just listed 10 of your best teams in the league. Of which the Dolphins per their schedule are playing 4 of those 10 teams in the league through their first four games of the season. Which is what I stated before. A young team with a rookie HC without much confidence and swagger to this point against three 10+ year veteran coaches to start, two of which have won Super Bowls. That’s a bad schedule to catch.

In terms of your list in general I don’t agree with it. Don't think the Bears with Trubisky belong in the top 10 over a Green Bay team that beat them along with the Vikings, a team that has an elite QB and one of the best defenses this season.

Beyond that I think the Ravens are on another level over all those “good” teams you have listed except the Cowboys and Packers- that you don't have listed.

How? What makes the Ravens on another level?

They barely squeaked by a team with a HC & QB that are both brand new to the NFL.

People were talking about the Ravens as the 3rd best team in their own division a couple weeks ago. Two weeks doesn't magically make them an elite team. Lamar Jackson has to show a lot more than 2 games of passing well for me to buy into him.

And as far as the Dolphins are concerned - losing to any two teams by a combined 92 points is a disgrace.

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5 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

And as far as the Dolphins are concerned - losing to any two teams by a combined 92 points is a disgrace.

Never said it wasn’t. Simply stated that there badness as a team will eventually normalize into a “regular bad” vs “historically bad” aka completely defeated.

Quote

In terms of this question, I think the Dolphins will win 3-4 games. I think they just have really bad schedule luck running into 3 of the best teams in the league to start their season.

Like I said here, the coaching staff with a young team tells the team after the first 4 games that the opening quarter of the season is over and that their new season begins now. The speech for some players might be to “fear of loss” their NFL opportunity. For some it might be talking up their star potential on a rebuilding team (Superman complex). Then for others the potential money they can make for having a great year.

The point of the speech is to reset the mentality of the team and that alone can earn a W against an opponent that believes the hype about how this Dolphins team is “historically bad”.

What’s more I said, especially considering their first three opponents were all some of the best teams in the league (all three were playoff teams the year before), that’s bad luck for this type of team to start. You then argue semantics to say that the Ravens aren’t a great team. Which I never stated them to be. But that’s a completely separate argument.

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5 minutes ago, theJ said:

Ouch.  Although, after the beatdown by the 9ers, i can't really argue.

Lots of time until December though.  A lot will change by then, for better or worse.

Sorry but I had you guys pegged as the second-least-talented team in the NFL during the offseason and while yall did hang with Seattle for a bit, the game yesterday was brutal.

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7 hours ago, Dome said:

I just saw a clip of a Dolphins RB ducking out of the way of a check down pass.

Thats a commitment to tanking I’ve never seen

I think he thought it was supposed to go to a receiver behind him (that wasn't there) - which suggest they don't really know the playbook, and/or have no chemistry at all. This is a dumpster fire.

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2 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Sorry but I had you guys pegged as the second-least-talented team in the NFL during the offseason and while yall did hang with Seattle for a bit, the game yesterday was brutal.

I'm not sure it's a talent thing really.  Lots of guys on this team that would start elsewhere.  The previous coaching staff just drug them through the mud, frequently holding on their roster the "good ol boys" and relegating the rookies to 3rd string.  

We're starting to see a change, but these things take time.

I don't think they're as good as they showed at Seattle.  I don't think they're as bad as they showed against SF.  The truth is probably in between, somewhere around 6/7 wins.

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6 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

People were talking about the Ravens as the 3rd best team in their own division a couple weeks ago. Two weeks doesn't magically make them an elite team. Lamar Jackson has to show a lot more than 2 games of passing well for me to buy into him.

How people were talking about the Ravens prior to this season is irrelevant. The reality is that they finished last season as the division winner. They were largely neutral in FA with hits vs losses. And then had what most draft sites consider the best draft within the division based off of multiple grades. So “third in the division” makes no sense to me.

But hey, just two weeks ago the Browns were largely considered to be a Super Bowl contender and the “best team in the division” yet I noticed that you don’t have them in your list of “great teams”, considering your obvious preference for pre-season rankings, what gives? The Browns have only played one game to this point, clearly that shouldn’t be enough time to lower them from the top spot...

7 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

They barely squeaked by a team with a HC & QB that are both brand new to the NFL.

Speaking of the Cleveland Browns, they went from 1-31 (something like that) to winning 7 games based off of drafting Baker Mayfield and having coordinators with a lot to prove (one is now their HC).

The Arizona Cardinals have similar circumstance, only the Arizona Cardinals over the past two seasons were 11-21. They also picked up a QB that had a superior season to Baker Mayfield at Oklahoma. One that was so good they traded their previous top 10 QB to “start over” with. They’ve added a top defensive mind in the game that just wrapped up a stint as a HC due to his success with defense prior to that point. They add a HOF pass rusher and noted veteran to their defense for added swagger (Terrell Suggs). Larry Fitzgerald is healthy this season unlike last year where he battled a hamstring for most of the season, prior to that he was a constant 1000 yard receiver and is top 10 all time in receiving touchdowns).

All that to say that these Arizona Cardinals are not a terrible team, they’re not a bad team, in fact they’re better than the Redskins that the Cowboys “only” beat by 10 points. They’re just as good, if not better than the Detroit Lions that just beat the Chargers. They’re probably just as good as the Bears this season considering Trubisky’s inadequacies. Point is they have a for real team that will be competing for a playoff wildcard spot this season, even within probably the most competitive division in football.

7 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

How? What makes the Ravens on another level?

Didn’t say just the Ravens before this becomes a strawman argument. I said the Ravens, Cowboys, and Packers are on another level. Why? Because all three offer an elite/high level component on the offensive, defense, and special teams level.

The Cowboys since trading for Amari Cooper have been one of the most efficient and prolific offenses in all of football. They already had a top 10 defense. And they have a stable kicking situation to boot (intentional pun).

The Packers have an elite QB, an improved defense that has displayed top 10 Potential this season, and they also have a stable kicking situation.

Then the Ravens bring a team that has the most accurate kicker in NFL history, a top 3 defense in the league, along with a rushing attack that since Lamar has taken over has averaged 228 rushing yards per game for 9 games running (another intentional pun).

What’s more said QB that most considered so likely to fail that even when one of the most prominent football analytic guys said he had the best season ever for a 21 year old QB, there was laughter/disgust, that QB has improved his accuracy considerably and for bonus points is tied with Mahomes with 7 TDs/0 Ints along the season. What’s more as said analytics argument  will attest, it’s been more than “just” two good games. He had good games last season, you and many others, just were wrong about him....

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1 hour ago, theJ said:

I'm not sure it's a talent thing really.  Lots of guys on this team that would start elsewhere.  The previous coaching staff just drug them through the mud, frequently holding on their roster the "good ol boys" and relegating the rookies to 3rd string.  

We're starting to see a change, but these things take time.

I don't think they're as good as they showed at Seattle.  I don't think they're as bad as they showed against SF.  The truth is probably in between, somewhere around 6/7 wins.

I disagree. Granted, I don't think the Bengals are close to being as devoid of talent as the Dolphins, but I can't think of another NFL team that I can say definitely has less talent overall (other than the Dolphins). The only team you may be able to argue for is the Giants, maybe. Of course, this is just my opinion, but I'd be curious to hear which teams you think the Bengals have more overall talent than.

Either way, Giants or Bengals are our best shots (although you should definitely win that game, we have a better shot in those games than any others). We also have a chance versus the Skins and the two games against the Jets, I guess. If we somehow avoid 0-16, it'll be in one of those five games - we have a virtually-zero chance of winning against anyone else, I think. So at least let me have this glimmer of hope, lol

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57 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I think he thought it was supposed to go to a receiver behind him (that wasn't there) - which suggest they don't really know the playbook, and/or have no chemistry at all. This is a dumpster fire.

Agreed.

Though with a week 5 bye week, no team has ever had a better need for an early bye week. Gives them a chance to get the playbook better implemented, build chemistry, and overturn the bad momentum to correct this dumpster fire. 

Throw in a Redskins team that will have just faced a tough Bears defense, a divisional opponent, and the Patriots (best team in the league) in successive weeks and they’ve got a really good chance to take that game.

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3 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Agreed.

Though with a week 5 bye week, no team has ever had a better need for an early bye week. Gives them a chance to get the playbook better implemented, build chemistry, and overturn the bad momentum to correct this dumpster fire. 

Throw in a Redskins team that will have just faced a tough Bears defense, a divisional opponent, and the Patriots (best team in the league) in successive weeks and they’ve got a really good chance to take that game.

We couldn't do this during the three months leading up to the season...what makes you think we can fix this in just a week?

The early bye does give us a chance to go to Rosen earlier than later, though. Not that Rosen is going to give us a significantly better chance to win a game, or anything.

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9 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I disagree. Granted, I don't think the Bengals are close to being as devoid of talent as the Dolphins, but I can't think of another NFL team that I can say definitely has less talent overall (other than the Dolphins). The only team you may be able to argue for is the Giants, maybe. Of course, this is just my opinion, but I'd be curious to hear which teams you think the Bengals have more overall talent than.

Either way, Giants or Bengals are our best shots (although you should definitely win that game, we have a better shot in those games than any others). We also have a chance versus the Skins and the two games against the Jets, I guess. If we somehow avoid 0-16, it'll be in one of those five games - we have a virtually-zero chance of winning against anyone else, I think. So at least let me have this glimmer of hope, lol

Hey if the Bengals play like they did yesterday, the Dolphins of course have a shot.

Re: Talent Level - i'm not even sure how you measure that.  I don't really buy into "talent" being a measurable thing, or playing into a team's success.  No one would ever rank the Pats as a particularly talented team, yet they win.  Everyone talked about the Bengals of 2006/2007 as talented, and they couldn't win.  The Chargers are always "talented" and can't put it together.

The Bengals of this year have enough talent to win this year.  But they won't, because of some key issues that hold them back (QB, tackling, and offensive line play).  

They're as deep as anyone, and probably deeper than at least 25 teams at DL.  When Green is back, the top 3 receivers are more dynamic than most.  We all know Mixon and Bernard can ball.  The secondary has some pro-bowl worthy players (WJIII, Jessie Bates).

Sorry, i just get tired of hearing about "talent".  It's a meaningless thing - these guys are all talented.  It's the NFL.  Winning comes down to much more nuanced things than talent.

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