TheKillerNacho Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, theJ said: Hey if the Bengals play like they did yesterday, the Dolphins of course have a shot. Re: Talent Level - i'm not even sure how you measure that. I don't really buy into "talent" being a measurable thing, or playing into a team's success. No one would ever rank the Pats as a particularly talented team, yet they win. Everyone talked about the Bengals of 2006/2007 as talented, and they couldn't win. The Chargers are always "talented" and can't put it together. The Bengals of this year have enough talent to win this year. But they won't, because of some key issues that hold them back (QB, tackling, and offensive line play). They're as deep as anyone, and probably deeper than at least 25 teams at DL. When Green is back, the top 3 receivers are more dynamic than most. We all know Mixon and Bernard can ball. The secondary has some pro-bowl worthy players (WJIII, Jessie Bates). Sorry, i just get tired of hearing about "talent". It's a meaningless thing - these guys are all talented. It's the NFL. Winning comes down to much more nuanced things than talent. Some are easily more talented than others. I'm not even sure how anyone could argue otherwise - there are clearly players who are faster/quicker/smarter/tougher than others, and the overwhelming majority of productive players are productive because they are better. You can call that skill, or talent, or ability - whatever you want, but it's a thing that definitely exists and while hard to define, definitely exists. I look at the Bengals roster and around half of the starters would be backups on most other teams. While I agree winning comes down to more than talent, talent is definitely a huge contributor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: I disagree. Granted, I don't think the Bengals are close to being as devoid of talent as the Dolphins, but I can't think of another NFL team that I can say definitely has less talent overall (other than the Dolphins). The only team you may be able to argue for is the Giants, maybe. Of course, this is just my opinion, but I'd be curious to hear which teams you think the Bengals have more overall talent than. Either way, Giants or Bengals are our best shots (although you should definitely win that game, we have a better shot in those games than any others). We also have a chance versus the Skins and the two games against the Jets, I guess. If we somehow avoid 0-16, it'll be in one of those five games - we have a virtually-zero chance of winning against anyone else, I think. So at least let me have this glimmer of hope, lol While I don’t disagree with your point about having a shot to beat them, I think you are underselling the Bengals talent a bit. QB- Andy Dalton isn’t a top QB, but he’s never been terrible and actually was on pace last season to have a better season than Matthew Stafford, a QB that some consider to be fringe top 10. RB- Mixon is a very solid starting RB and Bernard is a quality backup. Nothing to be ashamed of here. WR- AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, John Ross- Ross was a top 10 pick that has just started the season with multiple 100 yard games under a different staff. Boyd has been noted for ability in previous seasons. And Green when healthy is one of the best WRs in the game. This trio could ultimately push for the best WR trio in the division along with what the Browns have. TE- Eifert isn’t bad, just can’t remain healthy. OL- The OL last year had given up less than 2 sacks a game to Dalton IIRC. So that’s a unit that’s better than most. Throw in a defense that has probowl level talent in the secondary and other spots and I can’t see them being one of the most devoid of talent units in the league. When they had Dalton last season they were still in playoff contention and were a .500 team. There are other teams on your schedule that I would point to with regard to talent dearth than the Bengals, but that’s just me. Edited September 16, 2019 by diamondbull424 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: I'm not even sure how anyone could argue otherwise The argument is this: scheme is a real thing, that most definitely affects how "talented" players look. Point in case: John Ross. Obviously he's horrible right? Biggest blown draft pick in Bengals recently history. Every time he's on the field he's either dropping passes or running at the same speed as everyone else. "Talent" must have been overblown with him, cearly. Oh, but wait! Marvin out, Zac Taylor in, and all of the sudden Ross looks faster, more dynamic, gets open easier, etc. He's the same guy as before, but the system is allowing him to show his skills. Yes, it does matter. To some degree. Swap out a team's good players with 7th rounders and it would be a disaster, every time. So there are teams that just don't have the players to compete and don't have a shot at even winning 4 games. But that's not 20 teams. It's a very small handful. Most years probably 1 or 2. The Bengals of 2019 are not one of those teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: We couldn't do this during the three months leading up to the season...what makes you think we can fix this in just a week? The early bye does give us a chance to go to Rosen earlier than later, though. Not that Rosen is going to give us a significantly better chance to win a game, or anything. You guys added like 15 new players after the preseason wrapped up. That’s like unprecedented. Trying to incorporate 15 new players into roles on the team and get the playbook down is a tall task. You have the early regular season games where each game you can introduce more and more concepts to and then two weeks to really drill the playbook and build chemistry over the bye. Not saying this will turn you all into contenders, simply saying it should make the dumpster fire to cool down a bit and up your potential to be better prepared after the bye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajayii Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, theJ said: Hey if the Bengals play like they did yesterday, the Dolphins of course have a shot. Re: Talent Level - i'm not even sure how you measure that. I don't really buy into "talent" being a measurable thing, or playing into a team's success. No one would ever rank the Pats as a particularly talented team, yet they win. Everyone talked about the Bengals of 2006/2007 as talented, and they couldn't win. The Chargers are always "talented" and can't put it together. The Bengals of this year have enough talent to win this year. But they won't, because of some key issues that hold them back (QB, tackling, and offensive line play). They're as deep as anyone, and probably deeper than at least 25 teams at DL. When Green is back, the top 3 receivers are more dynamic than most. We all know Mixon and Bernard can ball. The secondary has some pro-bowl worthy players (WJIII, Jessie Bates). Sorry, i just get tired of hearing about "talent". It's a meaningless thing - these guys are all talented. It's the NFL. Winning comes down to much more nuanced things than talent. Agreed. Talent means little if you don't have the coach(es). @TheKillerNacho, I think you're doing what other team's fans would do to us in the past by underestimating Cincy's talent. They have one of the better defensive lines with Dunlap, Atkins, Lawson, and now Hubbard. Preston Brown has always been a rock at LB. Jackson III and their second-year player Bates are good. Joe Mixon is a top 10 back in the league. Boyd and Ross are better than any receiver on our roster. TB, NYJ, NYG, DEN, OAK, ARI, WAS, and Miami are easily less-talented that Cincy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: You guys added like 15 new players after the preseason wrapped up. That’s like unprecedented. Trying to incorporate 15 new players into roles on the team and get the playbook down is a tall task. You have the early regular season games where each game you can introduce more and more concepts to and then two weeks to really drill the playbook and build chemistry over the bye. Not saying this will turn you all into contenders, simply saying it should make the dumpster fire to cool down a bit and up your potential to be better prepared after the bye. I agree with this. At some point they'll play a few competitive games because something will come together for them. Add to that, i'm sure they'll catch a few teams off-guard because the other team thought it would be a bye week or something. There's no way they get plastered by 40 every week, and we all know close games are random-ish (unless we're talking about the Pats). They'll win a few. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 The Dolphins have a very good shot at absolutely blowing the doors off the season point differential record, which currently sits at -273 according to Reddit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ajayii said: Agreed. Talent means little if you don't have the coach(es). @TheKillerNacho, I think you're doing what other team's fans would do to us in the past by underestimating Cincy's talent. They have one of the better defensive lines with Dunlap, Atkins, Lawson, and now Hubbard. Preston Brown has always been a rock at LB. Jackson III and their second-year player Bates are good. Joe Mixon is a top 10 back in the league. Boyd and Ross are better than any receiver on our roster. TB, NYJ, NYG, DEN, OAK, ARI, WAS, and Miami are easily less-talented that Cincy. I never said coaching wasn't also important, lol also DL and CB are like, the only positions that I really like of Cincinnati... strong disagree on TB, NYJ, OAK, DEN, ARI. NYG and WAS are arguable. either way, the Bengals are one of the teams on our schedule we have a shot against Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dome said: The Dolphins have a very good shot at absolutely blowing the doors off the season point differential record, which currently sits at -273 according to Reddit. Does being both winless and the worst winless team in the history of the league some how cancel out the perfect season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Does being both winless and the worst winless team in the history of the league some how cancel out the perfect season? Nah it just shows when we put our mind to it, we'll prove that we're #1 at anything 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajayii Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 On a scale from 1 to 10, I'd say we're at a 6 right now. Not historically bad though. Baltimore was atrocious but expected; Miami never fares well against Baltimore and played man coverage with Lamar in a clean pocket. The fact that we kept it so close against NE, who imo was pissed off about the Miami Miracle, in the first half means that there's some fight in this team. As @diamondbull424 said, we just signed guys off the street to start and serve as depth so its going to take some time to adjust. Everyone starting on the OL besides Deiter and Kilgore are playing out of position and or were just signed within the last month which equals no run game, constant disruption whenever the QB dropbacks , and ten sacks. Not to mention the NFL doing us no favors by scheduling four playoff teams back-to-back which so happen to be four of the best offenses and some of the top defenses. Lucky us with a first-year HC and the front office shipping players out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ajayii said: On a scale from 1 to 10, I'd say we're at a 6 right now. Not historically bad though. Baltimore was atrocious but expected; Miami never fares well against Baltimore and played man coverage with Lamar in a clean pocket. The fact that we kept it so close against NE, who imo was pissed off about the Miami Miracle, in the first half means that there's some fight in this team. As @diamondbull424 said, we just signed guys off the street to start and serve as depth so its going to take some time to adjust. Everyone starting on the OL besides Deiter and Kilgore are playing out of position and or were just signed within the last month which equals no run game, constant disruption whenever the QB dropbacks , and ten sacks. Not to mention the NFL doing us no favors by scheduling four playoff teams back-to-back which so happen to be four of the best offenses and some of the top defenses. Lucky us with a first-year HC and the front office shipping players out. mfw when we're so bad we're calling 43-0 "keeping it close". Even when our defense was keeping it as a 2/3 score game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, the game's result was never out of question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 BAL and NE are shaping up to be two of the better teams in the entire league. Combine that with MIA being in a tailspin and I think they look worse than they are, but still really really really bad. I don't think they'll go 0-16 but they could easily end up with 4 or fewer wins. Could possibly beat Washington, Giants, Bills, Jets, Bengals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajayii Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: I never said coaching wasn't also important, lol also DL and CB are like, the only positions that I really like of Cincinnati... strong disagree on TB, NYJ, OAK, DEN, ARI. NYG and WAS are arguable. either way, the Bengals are one of the teams on our schedule we have a shot against That's your opinion which I'll accept but if you were to poll anyone else who pays attention around the league, they would strongly disagree. None of those teams have better talent than Cincy. Edited September 16, 2019 by Ajayii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajayii Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: mfw when we're so bad we're calling 43-0 "keeping it close". Even when our defense was keeping it as a 2/3 score game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, the game's result was never out of question There are more words after those...."in the first half". The game's result was never out of question because the offense couldn't get anything going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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