A.M- Life After Marcus Watch (options?)

[deeluxx3]

5 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

From what I understand, Lafleur was hired under the recommendation of Jon Robinson.  Vrabel didn't know him but after Lafleur interviewed for the HC, I think Robinson recommended him to Vrabel as the OC. 

It really hurts me to think that we were going to go in that direction for an offense and didn't because Day stayed. I think if Day gets hired we might be talking about a different team and a different Marcus. 

I’d love to see an alternate reality where Mariota goes to Philly and plays for Chip and maybe then indeed Pederson

im just curious as to what could’ve been. Maybe he still would’ve busted 

[TitanSS]

44 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

From what I understand, Lafleur was hired under the recommendation of Jon Robinson.  Vrabel didn't know him but after Lafleur interviewed for the HC, I think Robinson recommended him to Vrabel as the OC. 

It really hurts me to think that we were going to go in that direction for an offense and didn't because Day stayed. I think if Day gets hired we might be talking about a different team and a different Marcus. 

I don't think we're having a different conversation. LaFleur probably didn't plan on running this type of offense prior to being hired and was trying to scheme it to best fit the personnel. He was a bad situational play caller though.

However, I don't see Green Bay running nothing but 2 tight and bunch formations for Aaron Rogers. The offense has been changed to fit Rogers and their personnel in Green Bay. I think our OCs are doing the same here for what they think our offense and Mariota does best. I just find it way too coincidental that 3 OCs in a row have ran the same bunch/heavy stuff. They must see him as more successful when they do this. This year we've seen more predefined reads so they're trying to ask him to do even less than in previous years.

Again, I'm not saying I like this offense, because I hate it. I hate the entire scheme. I just think it is that way because of either Mariota or the rest of the personnel such as the OL. We have TEs and WRs now so, while that could have been a reason in years past, I don't think that's the reason now.

[Andrei01]

3 hours ago, KingTitan said:

Heard talk of Panthers maybe moving on from Cam Newton at the end of the year, due to injuries, performance and money.

Would you be interested in him next year as an option?   I wouldn't. 
What say you?

Not really. I think some people have always overrated the type of quarterback he really was, and it's concerning that injuries have also gotten worse and so has his play.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Andrei01

[deeluxx3]

7 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I don't think we're having a different conversation. LaFleur probably didn't plan on running this type of offense prior to being hired and was trying to scheme it to best fit the personnel. He was a bad situational play caller though.

However, I don't see Green Bay running nothing but 2 tight and bunch formations for Aaron Rogers. The offense has been changed to fit Rogers and their personnel in Green Bay. I think our OCs are doing the same here for what they think our offense and Mariota does best. I just find it way too coincidental that 3 OCs in a row have ran the same bunch/heavy stuff. They must see him as more successful when they do this. This year we've seen more predefined reads so they're trying to ask him to do even less than in previous years.

Again, I'm not saying I like this offense, because I hate it. I hate the entire scheme. I just think it is that way because of either Mariota or the rest of the personnel such as the OL. We have TEs and WRs now so, while that could have been a reason in years past, I don't think that's the reason now.

I cannot sit here and say that I know what type of offense is better for Mariota or what his skills/weaknesses are better than an NFL coach. Regardless of how "dumb" the coaches we've had around MM8 have been so far, their professions are football and building players and offenses. That said, what I do find baffling is that we've had fleeting drives where he looks so much more comfortable running the hurry up, spreading out receivers across the field, etc. Now I know that that type of system isn't really realistic over a 60 minute football game, but we do it so rarely that it really makes me scratch my head.

Jim Harbaugh was the perfect HC for Kaepernick. In Mariota, I cannot help but think you have a rich man's Kaepernick. It's a monkey-see-monkey-do league...why haven't we ever tried to pull from the Kaep 49ers film?

[-Hope-]

7 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Jim Harbaugh was the perfect HC for Kaepernick. In Mariota, I cannot help but think you have a rich man's Kaepernick. It's a monkey-see-monkey-do league...why haven't we ever tried to pull from the Kaep 49ers film?

in this specific case i have to imagine at least some of it is because mariota would die on the field if we ran him like the 9ers ran kaep lol

[ttitansfan4life]

2 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

in this specific case i have to imagine at least some of it is because mariota would die on the field if we ran him like the 9ers ran kaep lol

Plus Kaep had a much stronger arm so there’s a good amount of throws Mariota can’t make that Kaep could. 

[Andrei01]

8 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I cannot sit here and say that I know what type of offense is better for Mariota or what his skills/weaknesses are better than an NFL coach. Regardless of how "dumb" the coaches we've had around MM8 have been so far, their professions are football and building players and offenses. That said, what I do find baffling is that we've had fleeting drives where he looks so much more comfortable running the hurry up, spreading out receivers across the field, etc. Now I know that that type of system isn't really realistic over a 60 minute football game, but we do it so rarely that it really makes me scratch my head.

Jim Harbaugh was the perfect HC for Kaepernick. In Mariota, I cannot help but think you have a rich man's Kaepernick. It's a monkey-see-monkey-do league...why haven't we ever tried to pull from the Kaep 49ers film?

The comparison is actually funny, because that's exactly how he has been used. 49ers were leaning heavily on a solid power running game and a strong play action game off of it, from personnel groupings with multiple TEs and backs. It worked only before the second best in the league defense was depleted by injuries, retirements and suspensions or off the field issues and defenses have figured out how to stop the read option from the pistol.

That's very much like how Mariota has been used throughout the year. Even when it was working well, Mularkey's 1st year, people still hated it and called it outdated. 

[TitanSS]

5 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I cannot sit here and say that I know what type of offense is better for Mariota or what his skills/weaknesses are better than an NFL coach. Regardless of how "dumb" the coaches we've had around MM8 have been so far, their professions are football and building players and offenses. That said, what I do find baffling is that we've had fleeting drives where he looks so much more comfortable running the hurry up, spreading out receivers across the field, etc. Now I know that that type of system isn't really realistic over a 60 minute football game, but we do it so rarely that it really makes me scratch my head.

Jim Harbaugh was the perfect HC for Kaepernick. In Mariota, I cannot help but think you have a rich man's Kaepernick. It's a monkey-see-monkey-do league...why haven't we ever tried to pull from the Kaep 49ers film?

I'm not really a Kaepernick fan, but what exactly makes Mariota the rich man? Also, Kaepernick had one season where he averaged over 200 YPG. People thought he was good because the gameplan was made for him.. as in don't rely on him and rely on your elite defense and solid running game.

That's basically what we're trying to do. Formations are different, no Pistol, but the game plan is the same. Eliminate the need for Mariota to pass frequently. We just haven't executed. Early down yardage just hasn't came and we've been awful on consistent 3rd and longs.

As for the no huddle drives, they usually occur against prevent defenses. Either at the end of the half or when trailing in the second half. It's a little different doing this against a prevent defense than it is doing it against a defense that is coming after you. We've also seen him make some pretty bone-headed mistakes doing this. The end of the Bills game last year. That throw at the end of the Colts game this year. I don't think it's as cut and dry as people want to make it seem because of what Oregon did with him in college. 

[deeluxx3]

3 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Plus Kaep had a much stronger arm so there’s a good amount of throws Mariota can’t make that Kaep could. 

Kaep did have a cannnnnon

 

whomever we get next, that's one of my biggest wishes. Mariota doesn't have a noodle arm, but it's def not a gun

[deeluxx3]

3 minutes ago, Andrei01 said:

The comparison is actually funny, because that's exactly how he has been used. 49ers were leaning heavily on a solid power running game and a strong play action game off of it, from personnel groupings with multiple TEs and backs. It worked only before the second best in the league defense was depleted by injuries, retirements and suspensions or off the field issues and defenses have figured out how to stop the read option from the pistol.

That's very much like how Mariota has been used throughout the year. Even when it was working well, Mularkey's 1st year, people still hated it and called it outdated. 

true dat. those were some heavy set teams. really the only WR I recall making a consistent impact was Crabtree

[Andrei01]

4 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I'm not really a Kaepernick fan, but what exactly makes Mariota the rich man? Also, Kaepernick had one season where he averaged over 200 YPG. People thought he was good because the gameplan was made for him.. as in don't rely on him and rely on your elite defense and solid running game.

That's basically what we're trying to do. Formations are different, no Pistol, but the game plan is the same. Eliminate the need for Mariota to pass frequently. We just haven't executed. Early down yardage just hasn't came and we've been awful on consistent 3rd and longs.

As for the no huddle drives, they usually occur against prevent defenses. Either at the end of the half or when trailing in the second half. It's a little different doing this against a prevent defense than it is doing it against a defense that is coming after you. We've also seen him make some pretty bone-headed mistakes doing this. The end of the Bills game last year. That throw at the end of the Colts game this year. I don't think it's as cut and dry as people want to make it seem because of what Oregon did with him in college. 

Yes, and this is precisely what most people ignore when bringing up not running enough hurry up or no huddle. Most of what we saw of it came against prevent defense. Might be true it made him look better because it will, more often than not, make any quarterback in the league look better against prevent defenses. It's far from sustainable over the course of a full game.

[Andrei01]

12 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Kaep did have a cannnnnon

 

whomever we get next, that's one of my biggest wishes. Mariota doesn't have a noodle arm, but it's def not a gun

Not saying I wouldn't love to have that, but I think if we look throughout the years, most quarterbacks with a cannon for an arm at best develop into mediocre QBs. Mahomes is maybe once in two lifetimes situation, and still a lot of people were questioning his possible development as an NFL starting quarterback, many for the same reason I cited in the beginning of the post.

I think Herbert and Eason are two guys that have that ability, but can't say I'd feel comfortable with either. Eason I don't think is that spectacular otherwise, and Herbert is not too consistent right now for my taste. Sky is the limit with his arm strength and talent, just like it was with Mahomes or Allen, but not anyone will livs up to it. FWIW, as far as upcoming prospects go, I already said I like Burrow and I think he gets drafted higher than people think right now, and Jordan Love is a guy I'm falling in love with the more I watch.

[TitanSS]

4 minutes ago, Andrei01 said:

Not saying I wouldn't love to have that, but I think if we look throughout the years, most quarterbacks with a cannon for an arm at best develop into mediocre QBs. Mahomes is maybe once in two lifetimes situation, and still a lot of people were questioning his possible development as an NFL starting quarterback, many for the same reason I cited in the beginning of the post.

I think Herbert and Eason are two guys that have that ability, but can't say I'd feel comfortable with either. Eason I don't think is that spectacular otherwise, and Herbert is not too consistent right now for my taste. Sky is the limit with his arm strength and talent, just like it was with Mahomes or Allen, but not anyone will livs up to it. FWIW, as far as upcoming prospects go, I already said I like Burrow and I think he gets drafted higher than people think right now, and Jordan Love is a guy I'm falling in love with the more I watch.

I haven't watched Love yet, but I've been watching Burrow and Fromm and I've seen some of Herbert. I'm only seen Tua live.

I initially liked Fromm, but I don't think he's going to be accurate enough for the NFL. Especially downfield. I would pass on him.

Burrow though, I think he could be the real deal. The way he stands in the pocket and continues to step into a throw when he's about to take a hit is impressive. He continues to make throws with bodies all around him.

[-Hope-]

burrow and tua are the only guys i really like in this draft, and tua is borderline for me. obviously waiting to see what burrow does against the real meat of his schedule but he passes the eye test with flying colors. i haven't seen anything of eason yet, though.

[KingTitan]

59 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I'm not really a Kaepernick fan, but what exactly makes Mariota the rich man? Also, Kaepernick had one season where he averaged over 200 YPG. People thought he was good because the gameplan was made for him.. as in don't rely on him and rely on your elite defense and solid running game.

That's basically what we're trying to do. Formations are different, no Pistol, but the game plan is the same. Eliminate the need for Mariota to pass frequently. We just haven't executed. Early down yardage just hasn't came and we've been awful on consistent 3rd and longs.

As for the no huddle drives, they usually occur against prevent defenses. Either at the end of the half or when trailing in the second half. It's a little different doing this against a prevent defense than it is doing it against a defense that is coming after you. We've also seen him make some pretty bone-headed mistakes doing this. The end of the Bills game last year. That throw at the end of the Colts game this year. I don't think it's as cut and dry as people want to make it seem because of what Oregon did with him in college. 

I know it's one of those things that will be answered if/when we have a different QB.  I just wonder if this would be the offense regardless of the QB. I feel like it would pretty much the same. 
Thinking to when Gabbert was in there, it looked similar if not worst. He had a stronger arm but everything still formation wise was similar. 

I wonder if we have the type of coaches that will draft another spread QB and try to put them in a power running scheme.