Week 3: Raiders (1-1) at VIKINGS (1-1)

[vike daddy]

21 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

I think you read too much into that

we are what we write here. do i have to infer what the author really means, instead of just looking at what they post?

[Klomp]

Interesting...we're on Fox this week despite it being a home game against an AFC opponent.

[Uncle Buck]

34 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

yikes, another over reactive foolish comment.

i mean, we can only play our starting QB when the score is tied or we're ahead? that's just... ridiculous.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I was reacting to Virginia Viking's post.  I also thought it was an overreaction.  Kirk had a bad day, which has been a characteristic of him in big games.  At the same time, it's not like we are dealing with a low-level backup QB.  All players have things they need to work on, and that is one of his issues.  At the same time, he has a lot of strengths as a quarterback as well, and that's why we signed him.  We just have put that game in the past and move on to next week.  He is our starter for the next two years, whether we as fans like it or not.  We are in no position to bench the guy. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vike daddy said:

yikes, another over reactive foolish comment.

i mean, we can only play our starting QB when the score is tied or we're ahead? that's just... ridiculous.

I'm not sure that Buck was advocating completely benching Cousins or pulling him when behind.  I don't want to put words in his mouth or on his keyboard, but I think he is basically saying ride Cousins for the duration.  I think I remain the only foolish over reactive member of the board regarding Cousins.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Guest

[vike daddy]

1 hour ago, Uncle Buck said:

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I was reacting to Virginia Viking's post.  I also thought it was an overreaction.  Kirk had a bad day, which has been a characteristic of him in big games.  At the same time, it's not like we are dealing with a low-level backup QB.  All players have things they need to work on, and that is one of his issues.  At the same time, he has a lot of strengths as a quarterback as well, and that's why we signed him.  We just have put that game in the past and move on to next week.  He is our starter for the next two years, whether we as fans like it or not.  We are in no position to bench the guy. 

ahaa, i see. much better then. thanks for setting me straight.

[NorthCountryEvo]

I think everyone is being a little too over dramatic with Kirk because of recency bias. Week 1 with 10 passes (not Kirk's fault, it was a result of dominating... though that stat is still used against him), and then a statistical outlier of a bad game last week. I'm not going to say that Cousins doesn't deserve criticism... without criticism then there is no progress because you'll just decay away in your echo chamber. My point is that Cousins isn't some MVP caliber, put the team on your shoulders style of QB. He never has been, probably never will be, and I don't know that anyone really thought that was the role he was supposed to fill when we signed him (even though one could hope for that sort of production/characteristic from the size of the contract we gave him). He isn't a horrible QB. He isn't fantastic either. Regardless, ignoring his previous positive performances and only showcasing his negatives from the past doesn't paint the picture correctly. The sky isn't falling.

After two weeks, and really after one week where we attempted utilized the passing game, scheme and coaching are going to drive the success of the season. Players have to get into a momentum or rhythm a lot of times, and our passing offense has not hit that point yet. This is evidenced by the amount of dropped passes we saw in this last game. Diggs and Thielen are two very sure handed receivers, yet there was an uncharacteristically high amount of drops last week. This game vs the Raiders needs to be one for us to get on track and get our offensive tempo set correctly. We have to have a methodical approach and balance to the game to get the passing attack working. We know the run game works, and we'll be able to lean on that to set up the pass. Going down 21 points in just over a quarter last week completely threw off any real tempo we had, and I think that pushed Kirk into poor decision making and errors.

The Raiders are a great opportunity for us to bounce back, but that's not to say that they are going to be pushovers. We need to stick to our fundamentals. The defense needs to be what they were for the majority of 3 quarters last Sunday. The offense needs to do what they do best, and right now that is run the ball. Continued success running will keep the defense fresh (a big issue for us last year), it will wear down the Raiders, and it will open the doors to more dynamic passing game. I fully expect us to deliberately pound the ball on the ground and have a few designed quick passes to give Kirk and the O a bit of confidence, and then to smooth into a more normal gameplan.

[Guest]

I have reasonable hope that the passing game will pay better dividends this week. My only real concern is helping the interior of the offensive line keep a reasonable facsimile of a pocket for Cousins.  My expectation is that the defense will be dominant for all four quarters.  If the offensive line has problems pass protecting Cousins will likely have problems as well.  AND, hopefully the Vikings won't need the kicker to win the game.  I predict the Vikings win 30 - 14.

[vike daddy]

6 minutes ago, NorthCountryEvo said:

I think everyone is being a little too over dramatic with Kirk because of recency bias. Week 1 with 10 passes (not Kirk's fault, it was a result of dominating... though that stat is still used against him), and then a statistical outlier of a bad game last week. I'm not going to say that Cousins doesn't deserve criticism... without criticism then there is no progress because you'll just decay away in your echo chamber. My point is that Cousins isn't some MVP caliber, put the team on your shoulders style of QB. He never has been, probably never will be, and I don't know that anyone really thought that was the role he was supposed to fill when we signed him (even though one could hope for that sort of production/characteristic from the size of the contract we gave him). He isn't a horrible QB. He isn't fantastic either. Regardless, ignoring his previous positive performances and only showcasing his negatives from the past doesn't paint the picture correctly. The sky isn't falling.

After two weeks, and really after one week where we attempted utilized the passing game, scheme and coaching are going to drive the success of the season. Players have to get into a momentum or rhythm a lot of times, and our passing offense has not hit that point yet. This is evidenced by the amount of dropped passes we saw in this last game. Diggs and Thielen are two very sure handed receivers, yet there was an uncharacteristically high amount of drops last week. This game vs the Raiders needs to be one for us to get on track and get our offensive tempo set correctly. We have to have a methodical approach and balance to the game to get the passing attack working. We know the run game works, and we'll be able to lean on that to set up the pass. Going down 21 points in just over a quarter last week completely threw off any real tempo we had, and I think that pushed Kirk into poor decision making and errors.

The Raiders are a great opportunity for us to bounce back, but that's not to say that they are going to be pushovers. We need to stick to our fundamentals. The defense needs to be what they were for the majority of 3 quarters last Sunday. The offense needs to do what they do best, and right now that is run the ball. Continued success running will keep the defense fresh (a big issue for us last year), it will wear down the Raiders, and it will open the doors to more dynamic passing game. I fully expect us to deliberately pound the ball on the ground and have a few designed quick passes to give Kirk and the O a bit of confidence, and then to smooth into a more normal gameplan.

i want to have your babies.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, NorthCountryEvo said:

I think everyone is being a little too over dramatic with Kirk because of recency bias. Week 1 with 10 passes (not Kirk's fault, it was a result of dominating... though that stat is still used against him), and then a statistical outlier of a bad game last week. I'm not going to say that Cousins doesn't deserve criticism... without criticism then there is no progress because you'll just decay away in your echo chamber. My point is that Cousins isn't some MVP caliber, put the team on your shoulders style of QB. He never has been, probably never will be, and I don't know that anyone really thought that was the role he was supposed to fill when we signed him (even though one could hope for that sort of production/characteristic from the size of the contract we gave him). He isn't a horrible QB. He isn't fantastic either. Regardless, ignoring his previous positive performances and only showcasing his negatives from the past doesn't paint the picture correctly. The sky isn't falling.

After two weeks, and really after one week where we attempted utilized the passing game, scheme and coaching are going to drive the success of the season. Players have to get into a momentum or rhythm a lot of times, and our passing offense has not hit that point yet. This is evidenced by the amount of dropped passes we saw in this last game. Diggs and Thielen are two very sure handed receivers, yet there was an uncharacteristically high amount of drops last week. This game vs the Raiders needs to be one for us to get on track and get our offensive tempo set correctly. We have to have a methodical approach and balance to the game to get the passing attack working. We know the run game works, and we'll be able to lean on that to set up the pass. Going down 21 points in just over a quarter last week completely threw off any real tempo we had, and I think that pushed Kirk into poor decision making and errors.

The Raiders are a great opportunity for us to bounce back, but that's not to say that they are going to be pushovers. We need to stick to our fundamentals. The defense needs to be what they were for the majority of 3 quarters last Sunday. The offense needs to do what they do best, and right now that is run the ball. Continued success running will keep the defense fresh (a big issue for us last year), it will wear down the Raiders, and it will open the doors to more dynamic passing game. I fully expect us to deliberately pound the ball on the ground and have a few designed quick passes to give Kirk and the O a bit of confidence, and then to smooth into a more normal gameplan.

Thanks for your post.  I agree with all that you have articulated here.  I think I might have gotten myself in trouble by wondering aloud about the possibility of benching Cousins if he has another bad outing and the Vikings fall behind in the score.  I didn't articulate myself particularly elegantly or clearly.  The other thing that I didn't realize is the overall hesitancy of benching starting quarterbacks in the modern NFL.  It was pretty common in past eras to bench quarterbacks who are having rough outings in much the same way you would pull a starting pitcher who was getting tagged and losing.  The idea was that a benching might actually do the quarterback some good.  None of them liked it.  However, I think if someone like Terry Bradshaw honestly reflected on his early career, Chuck Noll did him a favor by benching him multiple times.  It inspired him, eventually, to play better and more under control.  The modern game is different.  Quarterbacks might not respond well to the "tough love" that might have occurred in the past.  Anyway, I will be taking all of this into account as I comment on Cousins in the future. Accordingly, I will attempt to add more objectivity to comments.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

i want to have your babies.

[NorthCountryEvo]

3 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

Quarterbacks might not respond well to the "tough love" that might have occurred in the past. 

I think it's fair to say that's the case for many in today's modern society, where everyone gets a trophy...

 

but i digress....

Edited September 18, 2019 by NorthCountryEvo

[JDBrocks]

I know this is a game day thread, so I don't want to belabor the point, but isn't it odd that most call the generation that receives participation trophies "soft"? Who decided to start handing them out? Certainly not the recipients.

[Cearbhall]

1 hour ago, Virginia Viking said:

I think I remain the only foolish over reactive member of the board regarding Cousins.

Swell of you to take the heat.

Real Swell.

However, at the time of the Cousins signing I thought that Cousins was maybe above the Dalton line. Nothing that has happened since has changed that opinion.

Some will call that overreacting and/or foolish. I am fine with that. I am comfortable with my assessment of Kirk Cousins.

The good news is a Dalton Line QB will be able to hold serve against bad teams. The Mayock/Gruden Raiders have yet to hit their stride. I expect them to struggle against the Vikings. This is a game I expect our QB to be Kirk instead of Kurt.

Vikings win 23-17.

[Uncle Buck]

1 hour ago, vike daddy said:

i want to have your babies.

And you accused me of overreacting!  

[vike daddy]

The Raiders are a little short of what they planned at receiver, perhaps you heard about it. They made a move to address the shortage Wednesday, according to Ian Rapoport of NFL Network, the Packers are trading wide receiver Trevor Davis to the Raiders.

The 2016 fifth-rounder was down the depth chart with the Packers, but would have a clearer shot at the field with Oakland. He’s a speed receiver, who fits the longstanding Raiders profile and coach Jon Gruden’s desire to take more shots downfield.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/18/packers-trading-trevor-davis-to-the-raiders/