Karnage84 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said: On passing downs I'd either have them blitzing or on the bench. Where they were drafted or where they played in college is irrelevant if they're not cutting it covering their assignments. I disagree on the irrelevance of draft position/college. A 1st round guy from the SEC should be expected to be more of a polished product as opposed to a 2nd rounder from a non-Power 5 conference. On top of that, Tavai is a rookie where Davis is a vet. Tavai should be given the opportunity to develop. If he's a liability, then they need to adjust for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Karnage84 said: I disagree on the irrelevance of draft position/college. A 1st round guy from the SEC should be expected to be more of a polished product as opposed to a 2nd rounder from a non-Power 5 conference. On top of that, Tavai is a rookie where Davis is a vet. Tavai should be given the opportunity to develop. If he's a liability, then they need to adjust for that. I disagree with your disagreement. Polish depends on individual coaches. There are good coaches that have kids with top notch technique from all over the country. The SEC means nothing other than Bama tends to have a lot of 5 star high school kids. I would say I expect a first rounder to be more impactful early than I do later round picks but I don't think it has anything to do with where you played in college, see Kalil Mack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I disagree with your disagreement. Polish depends on individual coaches. There are good coaches that have kids with top notch technique from all over the country. The SEC means nothing other than Bama tends to have a lot of 5 star high school kids. I would say I expect a first rounder to be more impactful early than I do later round picks but I don't think it has anything to do with where you played in college, see Kalil Mack. Mack is more the exception than the rule. There are definitely guys that are naturally talented and flourish with NFL coaching. Tarik Cohen went to a FCS school and is just a playmaker based on natural talent and athleticism (we're giving the Bears too much credit, it feels dirty). The level of competition at a SEC program along with the various coaching staffs should, not always but should, better prepare a guy for the next level. There's a reason that SEC guys are more highly drafted - perceived talent (like the 5 star rankings), level of competition and presumably a higher floor. Every year in every draft there are questions on whether a guy from a non-Power 5 school will be able to compete in the NFL at the same level as a Power 5 guy can. We have seen time and again guys from all over the place are able to come in, make plays and prove they belong in the league. Tavai has shown that. He's also shown he has some growing to do in different areas. As a 2nd round pick from a MWC school that NOBODY had heard of prior to his name being called, I'm willing to give the guy some slack and develop into the role. I have higher expectations for Davis. It doesn't mean that Tavai can make a million mistakes and it's cool. I just don't expect that he's going to be Darius Leonard and win DROY either. If he does, it's only a bonus for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Mack is more the exception than the rule. There are definitely guys that are naturally talented and flourish with NFL coaching. Tarik Cohen went to a FCS school and is just a playmaker based on natural talent and athleticism (we're giving the Bears too much credit, it feels dirty). The level of competition at a SEC program along with the various coaching staffs should, not always but should, better prepare a guy for the next level. There's a reason that SEC guys are more highly drafted - perceived talent (like the 5 star rankings), level of competition and presumably a higher floor. Every year in every draft there are questions on whether a guy from a non-Power 5 school will be able to compete in the NFL at the same level as a Power 5 guy can. We have seen time and again guys from all over the place are able to come in, make plays and prove they belong in the league. Tavai has shown that. He's also shown he has some growing to do in different areas. As a 2nd round pick from a MWC school that NOBODY had heard of prior to his name being called, I'm willing to give the guy some slack and develop into the role. I have higher expectations for Davis. It doesn't mean that Tavai can make a million mistakes and it's cool. I just don't expect that he's going to be Darius Leonard and win DROY either. If he does, it's only a bonus for us. I still disagree, SEC means nothing, and is proven by the draft. Mack is one example, the QBs that come out of other conferences and do well is an example like Josh Allen. Players are drafted on their skill set and coachability. There is no expectation for an SEC player to be more polished. I never expected Teez Tabor to be more polished than Marshawn Latimore or Jalen Ramsey because he played in the SEC. Tavai is making the same or similar mistakes to Davis' first year. Same mistakes as most rookie LBs. Its not about where he played in college, its about transitioning to the NFL. Which is tough for most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 What’s going on with stefon diggs? Seen everyone freaking out about trade destinations and he wasn’t practicing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortexLion Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 How about Von Miller? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, MortexLion said: How about Von Miller? I'd love to add an elite edge rusher to this defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 13 hours ago, Lionized said: What’s going on with stefon diggs? Seen everyone freaking out about trade destinations and he wasn’t practicing. I have zero issues with the Vikings imploding and trading away a guy like Diggs. It'd be a terrible idea but he might force the move anyway. Cook has played great but he has a very lengthy injury history. They can't count on him for a full season at this point. They've been a competitive team in the past because of their two WR's and the defense. In a division where the Packers have an improved D, the Bears might have the top defense in the league and the Lions are vastly improved you need offensive weapons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 22 hours ago, Karnage84 said: I disagree on the irrelevance of draft position/college. A 1st round guy from the SEC should be expected to be more of a polished product as opposed to a 2nd rounder from a non-Power 5 conference. On top of that, Tavai is a rookie where Davis is a vet. Tavai should be given the opportunity to develop. If he's a liability, then they need to adjust for that. I always thought Jarrad Davis would be better as a WLB. He is really athletic and fast but I am not sure he has the play diagnosis skills for a MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 18 hours ago, Lionized said: What’s going on with stefon diggs? Seen everyone freaking out about trade destinations and he wasn’t practicing. I would love to add him to our team but there is no way they would trade him to a division rival. Especially, mid-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Just Want A Title said: I would love to add him to our team but there is no way they would trade him to a division rival. Especially, mid-season. There's zero chance the Vikings would trade him to us. It's just nice to see them implode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Just Want A Title said: I always thought Jarrad Davis would be better as a WLB. He is really athletic and fast but I am not sure he has the play diagnosis skills for a MLB. Essentially replacing Christian Jones with Tavai in the middle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) On 10/2/2019 at 3:24 PM, Sllim Pickens said: I don't think Ford played poorly, especially with Diggs going out. There wasn't a receiver that beat us consistently, so I am not sure Jalen Ramsey makes us a winner in that game. I think the bigger issue is KJ holding onto the ball, or Patricia not blowing challenges on dumb things like spotting the ball that nearly ever get overturned, or the defense not spying Mahomes on 4th and 8 on the last drive when he already killed us a couple times on similar plays were reasons we lost. Would Ramsey help, yes, but he still is a player at a position of strength for the Lions IMO and I am not sure he is worth sending multiple firsts for given the other non-strengths we could use them on. Allen and Fitzergarld basically did what they wanted on us. An receivers were imo, open, Mahomes just wasnt hitting his guy consistently. Idk. I like the secondary but outside of the KC game we've had issues. ( The Eagles were banged up so I'm not totally counting on that one game. ) I respect that you don't think he'll make us that much better. (I disagree) I think it turns a good secondary into a possible ELITE one. Keenan Allen did what ever he wanted vs Slay, Fitzgerlad had a big game vs us in multiple roles(inside/out). I think there's a difference between good, and elite, and Ramsey pushes the Lions into that elite type secondary. (Imo). I don't think Ford is very good honestly. Average. Targeted 8 times total this year with like 2 or 3 penalty's cause he's beat. Idk. Better than TD's but doesn't make him good imo. I'd be real nervous to rely on him other than as a in game reserve role. I just think there is a huge drop off from Melvin to Ford. IF you told me Von Miller was an option... I'd change my song quickly cause I like pass rushers better than players in the secondary. The other thing is... You're assuming and continuing to act like we'll be in the same position next year. The NFL is weird, you know this, and teams rise and fall quickly. It'll take the Bears just a decent, DECENT QB to rise to the top of this division next year. Aaron Rodgers needs just a little help at RB to be really good. Minnesota looks to be in self destruction which is awesome but even them, they could turn it around with the right moves/draft next year. I just see the opportunity now and am having a hard time letting it pass by. Edited October 4, 2019 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashtagFTW Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 3 hours ago, SimbaWho said: I respect that you don't think he'll make us that much better. (I disagree) I think it turns a good secondary into a possible ELITE one. Keenan Allen did what ever he wanted vs Slay, Fitzgerlad had a big game vs us in multiple roles(inside/out). Uhh, for one... Keenan Allen does whatever he wants with everybody. Healthy Keenan is a top 3 WR in the NFL. For two, I would heavily argue he had his way with Slay. He caught 8 passes on 15 targets and was kept out of the end zone. The week before, he caught 8 of 10 for 123 and a score. The week after, he caught 13 of 17 for 183 and two scores. I would consider his battle with Slay a victory for Slay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 19 hours ago, Karnage84 said: There's zero chance the Vikings would trade him to us. It's just nice to see them implode. @Uncle Buck Sorry dude, but this is division rival stuff. We all hate the Packers so there's common ground there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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