INbengalfan Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: I think they call that an oxymoron. But the saints, Steelers and and teams in similar positions are there because of injuries, which leads to the desperation that allows a team like us to trade a guy like dalton for that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Bristow Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, theJ said: I think that's possible. But usually the teams without great QB's have much shorter windows. It's usually only a year or two. It's doable for the Bengals as early as next year. Provided Jonah comes back healthy, and they find some LB support the situation isn't really that dire. There is enough skill elsewhere to win ball games. But the problem is that guys that flash (like Ross, Hubbard, Lawson) come due and you can't pay them all. Without the game changing QB, it's an unsustainable model in today's NFL. Those guys are easier to pay with a qb on a middling contract. I suppose that's an important aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 On 9/17/2019 at 12:35 PM, INbengalfan said: But the saints, Steelers and and teams in similar positions are there because of injuries, which leads to the desperation that allows a team like us to trade a guy like dalton for that high. ha ha... that would be hilarious. I wouldn't really want it to happen, but it would be so funny if it did. I have so many friends that are stealer fans that have bashed him forever, it would just be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Dalton isn't playing poorly this year but he does put a cap on what the team can achieve. That would be a playoff appearance and first round exit. That's the best we managed when we had a much better defense and overall roster than we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, sparky151 said: That's the best we managed when we had a much better defense and overall roster than we have now. Then again that better defense played like garbage in those playoff games. I think they can win a playoff game or two with Dalton. Maybe even a super bowl. But everything would have to go perfectly for that to happen. But yeah i'm board with another QB, if the opportunity is there. It's the only way to consistently achieve higher heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/20/2019 at 9:35 PM, theJ said: Then again that better defense played like garbage in those playoff games. I think they can win a playoff game or two with Dalton. Maybe even a super bowl. But everything would have to go perfectly for that to happen. But yeah i'm board with another QB, if the opportunity is there. It's the only way to consistently achieve higher heights. This is Dalton's peak performance wise. He's 31 years old. The physical decline is going to start soon and he's not starting from a high enough point to be effective still once he loses a little arm strength and is less mobile. If the Bengals have a chance to take a franchise QB, then they need to take it. Maybe even sit that guy a year behind Dalton so we can continue to build the oline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 hours ago, THE DUKE said: This is Dalton's peak performance wise. He's 31 years old. The physical decline is going to start soon and he's not starting from a high enough point to be effective still once he loses a little arm strength and is less mobile. If the Bengals have a chance to take a franchise QB, then they need to take it. Maybe even sit that guy a year behind Dalton so we can continue to build the oline. That would be smart but we've drafted John Ross instead of Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, Billy Price instead of Lamar Jackson, and Jonah Williams instead of Dwayne Haskins. It's clear the Bengals front office thinks QB isn't a problem area and equally clear they are wrong about that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, sparky151 said: That would be smart but we've drafted John Ross instead of Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, Billy Price instead of Lamar Jackson, and Jonah Williams instead of Dwayne Haskins. It's clear the Bengals front office thinks QB isn't a problem area and equally clear they are wrong about that. I agree, but it's getting about that time to pay Dalton. Mike Brown/the FO can probably be convinced by Zac Taylor to draft a QB and start them for the next 5 years on a Rookie Salary instead of paying Dalton $20M+ per year... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, sparky151 said: That would be smart but we've drafted John Ross instead of Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, Billy Price instead of Lamar Jackson, and Jonah Williams instead of Dwayne Haskins. It's clear the Bengals front office thinks QB isn't a problem area and equally clear they are wrong about that. I'm still holding out hope that the idea of not challenging Dalton was a Marvin led decision, and not Duke Tobin. Then the door would be open to making that QB selection this upcoming draft. The justification on Haskins then would be that they didn't feel he was a long term solution (and since we haven't seen him yet, maybe they're not wrong?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Here's what I know about Taylor and the QB room as it now stands. 1. He has towed the company line about Dalton being his starting QB, but I don't know if he really means it. 2. He targeted two QBs this past college offseason and drafted one of them, even trading up to do so. Then he doubled down on the other target and got him as an UDFA. Those were his targets. Both of those QBs are now on the active 53 man roster. Each should get opportunities to see where they are in terms of next year and beyond, but if either fails, it should not mean we have to draft one this draft just for the sake of drafting one. If Zavc loves one of them that is available, fine, pull the trigger. personally, I like the 2021 QBs more. Lawrence (duh) is the top prospect since Luck. I like Fields and the potential to develop over the next two college seasons over what Tua and Herbert are now after playing at least one fi=ull season (Tua) or more (Herbert, eason, Fromm). So if it were me, and clearly it's not, I would target Andrew Thomas in the top of the draft. I'd also look for a LB and another OT very soon after. Then I'm trading Dalton for whatever I can get. Let the two kids play. If one emerges, ride the hot hand. if both flail, then take Lawrence or Fields. here's another thing. The CBA ends after 2020. So maybe we HAVE to take a QB this upcoming draft if things look like players will start to chip away at the draft in negotiations. I doubt that happens in this CBA, but it isn't that far away. If the season were a lockout, what does that do for the draft? Will they just have two classes be eligible and possibly have a one year exemption and go a few extra rounds? Will there be UDFA talent like we never have seen all at once? Will agents try to get their draft eligible clients to get passed on if they fall and try to negotiate free agent deals like the Cowboys did with La'el Collins after his bizarre incident the week before the draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otg Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 hours ago, TheVillain112 said: I agree, but it's getting about that time to pay Dalton. Mike Brown/the FO can probably be convinced by Zac Taylor to draft a QB and start them for the next 5 years on a Rookie Salary instead of paying Dalton $20M+ per year... Is Dalton going to get a $20M+ contract though? It's not like he's a top 10 quarterback hitting free agency. He's already on the wrong side of 30. Nick Foles' new contract averages $22M. Last year after very good to great year Case Keenum signed a two year contract averaging $18M. They are a few months to about a year younger than Andy. Fitzpatrick just signed at $5.5M to be the presumptive starter. He's five years older and has had a more up and down career but... I don't know a proper comparison for Andy. It would be interesting to see historically what percent of the cap quarterbacks that were allowed to his free agency made by age. But he's just a good enough quarterback though. I say that as a fan of his who think he has been a great value for his draft pick and contract. I don't really see a market for him at his age forcing anyone to pay him decent starter money. He'd be a bridge or a backup. It might be best for all involved if he signed such a contract here. Structured so for the first year or two he'd get $20M+ per year with the following years being more in line with what a backup should be paid, with incentives that would pay him more if he ended up remaining the starter. Assuming Taylor values him as a player or what he brings to the quarterback room. And that Dalton doesn't value himself more than that, or wouldn't rather be a backup in a different location or with a different organization. That would give us flexibility about looking for the next starter, and insurance as a good backup. Granted I put a lot of value in the position of backup quarterback. A few years ago Care had the Raiders playing well but then went down for the playoffs, and they were dead in the water. TL;DR I can see Dalton not commanding a $20M+ contract and worth re-signing as lower salary starter, or decently paid backup/bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 13 hours ago, otg said: I don't know a proper comparison for Andy Some would disagree, but closest comparison at this point in time is Cousins. Problem is that he hit the market with much less tape, and on a hot streak. So he was overpaid. But they're similar QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, theJ said: Some would disagree, but closest comparison at this point in time is Cousins. Problem is that he hit the market with much less tape, and on a hot streak. So he was overpaid. But they're similar QB's. I can see Cousins but he has a better deep ball than Dalton. Dalton is a bit better at quick passes though. I could even see Case Keenum as a good comp for Dalton. Which is funny considering Keenum replaced Cousins in Washington... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3 hours ago, TheVillain112 said: I can see Cousins but he has a better deep ball than Dalton. Dalton is a bit better at quick passes though. I could even see Case Keenum as a good comp for Dalton. Which is funny considering Keenum replaced Cousins in Washington... Pretty sure that makes Jay Gruden either an average QB magnet or a meh QB developer. he had all three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, INbengalfan said: Pretty sure that makes Jay Gruden either an average QB magnet or a meh QB developer. he had all three He has a 'type', lol... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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