Screw the 2020 Draft?

[mwalker]

52 minutes ago, jebrick said:

I do get a kick out of some Steeler fans that berate the FO for not doing anything then clutch their pearls when the Steelers make a move.

 

As others have said, the Steelers suck at drafting CBs.  This is a good trade.

Agree. This is a very good, young player on a great contract. At worst, he's now our best safety (I think FS is his place).
He's higher rated than Delpit and McKinney will be, this years' top safeties.

I think Mason will get us a winning season. I'm not sure that'll be more than 9-7, but he's a player and we'll be a better
'team' with him in there; meaning, it'll be more balanced. I'm convinced the Ben/Fitchner relationship has been allowing
Ben to just sit in shotgun and do what he wants - and in a way I think that was selfish, maybe even oddly a way for self preservation.
 I'm a Ben fan, but our offense has become too vanilla. Haley was much better, but Ben didn't like the lack of control.

Maybe now we'll run the ball more and run more play action. I think ultimately we'll be better for it.

[Steeler Hitman]

2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

So, I'm not a big fan of the trade for Minkah, given our current predicament and the extreme uncertainty of it all, but should we just say, screw the 2020 draft, and try to trade for some more impact players this year? 

I don't think they are saying screw the 2020 draft at all. Right now OLB, FS, back-up TE and maybe WR are the biggest need. We will give Mason a chance to prove himself at QB. i don't think this team is trying to tank to get a top five draft pick. The Steelers recent track record for drafting DB's and OLB's in round one has not been consistent or great.  There is not a prospect that will be where Fitzpatrick is right now experience wise and other. This is a building block for the defense.  

We have criticized the Steelers for not going after players and making moves to get players who can impact this team positively. The timing has not been what we want, but this is the type of thing that our team needed. I think Fitzpatrick is a safer bet financially and for the locker as opposed to a Jalen Ramsey or Patrick Peterson.    

I mean, I have to think for a 3rd we can get a halfway decent WR or TE,  and maybe the 2nd can go for another defensive player.

I still believe that you build the nucleus of your team through the draft.  You will need those other picks which is why the Steelers flopped picks at the back end as well.  Do you put Moncrief on IR or cut him? Do you cut Switzer and bring in another veteran WR?  Do you try to trade for another TE?  I wouldn't be trying to lose anymore draft picks in 2020.  We look at 2021 picks for a player like Jalen Ramsey and we are taking on the old Washington Redskins model of not having the key top draft choices to build around. 

I'm not saying we should or shouldn't do this, but I am wondering what others think.     The Minkah trade is a "win now": move.....which is absolutely stupid considering we didn't make moves like this when we had a better chance to compete, but are now doing it after our franchise QB goes down.     

I think you acquire better talent anytime that you can.  A few years ago we thought we would still be playing with the Killer Bee's. In 2019 they have all been stung or moved out of Pittsburgh.I think a player like Fitzpatrick is far more than just win now, but rather keep winning. You know have a defensive nucleus of Watt and Bush at LB and  Edmunds and Fitzpatrick at Safety.  These guys are all in their first contracts.  I don't know who they could have gotten that was available in the past. I didn't like or agree with some of the free agent signings.  But in September 2019, they got a highly graded, high character, high ceiling player to add to the team in September 2019 and not April or May of 2020. I don't think that was stupid at all.

Still, this is our reality now, so why not double down and just trade our picks away for players that can help us win this year?   I certainly don't expect to be a playoff team no matter what, but maybe enough to not make this trade sting so bad.   

I don't know what this team will do with a third round second string QB, but the defense got better up the middle and deep immediately. I am tired of seeing this team need defensive stops and not getting them.  The Steelers should have put Seattle away early, but again beat themselves with penalties and inconsistent play.  They added a play-maker, so maybe we get the key INT, pass defense, fumble recovery or tackle on third down that we have missed the past several seasons.  Maybe this helps the offense, defense and special teams play better as a complete unit. Time will tell, but I can't criticize the team for not pulling the trigger in the past and then criticize them when they finally do.

1 hour ago, Chieferific said:

Ok, so he comes down in the Nickel leaving Davis (Kelly) at FS. That still needs to be improved. 

I think Minkah plays mainly at FS, but may rotate around at other positions. If Davis comes back, he is the third in the box safety.

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Do you think there's a chance we resign Davis and get rid of Dangerfield after the season?

Not looking good in my opinion. I have been a huge fan of Davis' potential and character, but he has not played like a second round draft choice that the team traded up to get. Some of it was the team moving him around, but he has not performed consistently on the field in my opinion and as I stated, I am a fan and supporter of Davis. Right now, I would not be trying to re-sign him. Dangerfield is an inexpensive option because of ST, but he is a SS and would be better in the box. 

[jebrick]

[AFF]

All this did technically was basically get their 1st rd pick a year early...while losing a year on their contract.

If they end up somewhere between 11-20, then the trade is fine value wise.

Leaves NT/Edge as the big 2 needs going into next year...OL and DL youth needed as well.

Hell...cutting a Moncrief and Barron alone cap wise would allow at least a Steve Nelson’s signing...if they resign Hargraves it’s gonna be tough.

[steelcurtain29]

Leave it to @FourThreeMafia to sour on a major move by the organization. You really are the definition of "Old man yells at cloud" without the being "old" part  

[Money]

12 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

So, Im not a big fan of the trade for Minkah, given our current predicament and the extreme uncertainty of it all, but should we just say, screw the 2020 draft, and try to trade for some more impact players this year?      I mean, I have to think for a 3rd we can get a halfway decent WR or TE,  and maybe the 2nd can go for another defensive player.

Im not saying we should or shouldnt do this, but I am wondering what others think.     The Minkah trade is a "win now": move.....which is absolutely stupid considering we didnt make moves like this when we had a better chance to compete, but are now doing it after our franchise QB goes down.     Still, this is our reality now, so why not double down and just trade our picks away for players that can help us win this year?   I certainly dont expect to be a playoff team no matter what, but maybe enough to not make this trade sting so bad.    

 

I'm going to tweak your mindset here.

This is what you got.

 

2nd

Comp

4th

4th

5th

6th

7th

 

It could be worse. Some 50% of the NFL is undrafted. Instead, of crying like a b____. Not saying that you are. Believe me. I'd say. Yeah I said what I said. Perhaps, it's best to believe in the scouting you have. Which I do. And start watching some MACtion on ESPN. Start watching some Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Some St. Cloud State. Because the name brand irrelevant Bama, USC, and Florida players will go in the first few rounds. The scouts have to step up to account for the Tomlin effect. The board needs to step it up with Alabama A&M talent. And it needs to be the best collective effort of all-time.

I also wouldn't be opposed to taking our 41st overall pick, adding a 4th, and a 2021 pick to end up back in the first round. Which I think they will. Since, 1st rd picks are the lifeblood of a NFL franchise.

We're not the Houston Texans.

[Money]

41st, #97 (via MIA), and a 2021 3rd puts you in that #21-25 spot.

[Money]

You could get Dylan Moses #21-25. BOOM.

[Money]

Torn ACL. Out for the year.

[Money]

Hell - it's maybe even possible to go TB 2nd, 3rd, 4th..... for our Comp, Ben, and 4th.

End up with....

1.25 - Dylan Moses

2.43

3.75

4.107

 

Like it ain't no thang....

[3rivers]

12 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

So, Im not a big fan of the trade for Minkah, given our current predicament and the extreme uncertainty of it all, but should we just say, screw the 2020 draft, and try to trade for some more impact players this year?      I mean, I have to think for a 3rd we can get a halfway decent WR or TE,  and maybe the 2nd can go for another defensive player.

Im not saying we should or shouldnt do this, but I am wondering what others think.     The Minkah trade is a "win now": move.....which is absolutely stupid considering we didnt make moves like this when we had a better chance to compete, but are now doing it after our franchise QB goes down.     Still, this is our reality now, so why not double down and just trade our picks away for players that can help us win this year?   I certainly dont expect to be a playoff team no matter what, but maybe enough to not make this trade sting so bad.    

 

I would say that colbert and co. have failed drafting other than gifts such as DDC, JJSS, Watt and a few others as well as some solid players. They can't draft OLB and DB's, that's a fact we all know about too well.  As for "win now" , it might be that they see Mason as a legit player that the team responds to, which I think is important. Then they trade for Fitz because the secondary is terrible anyways, edmunds and CB3 in particular. Davis has been inconsistent, but I would prefer he tried SS while Minkah can play FS and be a threat for INT's.

I would prefer if possible cap wise:

trade for a legit top tier CB like Peterson21 or someone else comparable, and move Nelson to the slot.  If edmunds can't get going, maybe try Davis at SS where he can run support and hit.

To do so, they might need to make cap space, so try to trade dupree somehow. 

OLB  would be :

trade dupree, chickillo to IR, recover Skipper with a late RD pick (more 2020 draft gone )

Perhaps try to get Lawson from the bungles, or see how Skipper and Ola do. They won't be any worse than dupree, that much I would say.  If injuries at OLB are too many, then go to a 4 man front and keep Heyward, Tuitt and Hargrave on the field all game. 

Trade moncrief for a whatever is possible, anything. 

Bring Eli back

 

11 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Honestly I thought about it last night. I'm okay with Ben coming back, but I'm also excited to see what Rudolph can do. I believe, honestly, if Rudolph does well, it puts pressure on Ben to play better. That's not a bad thing.

they could keep both, nothing wrong with 2 legit starters at QB, along as there isn't drama of course

 

11 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Does anyone think that with Mason Rudolph starting that we might see the tight end get utilized more in the run game get utilize more and potentially actually be a better team?

exactly. I have blamed bens influence in the OC play calling and now it will be time to learn if that was actually the reason. If they get the TE going and the running game going (seriously) then this team will be much better. 

 

11 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Fitzpatrick, reportedly, himself said he wanted to be used as a FS/NCB. Which is exactly what we need, it's honestly kind of a perfect match 

so they are learning to get players that suite their needs?  Unlike jarvis, dupree, burns, edmunds, hood  - all RD1 picks

[steelcurtain29]

33 minutes ago, Money said:

I'm going to tweak your mindset here.

This is what you got.

 

2nd

Comp

4th

4th

5th

6th

7th

 

It could be worse. Some 50% of the NFL is undrafted. Instead, of crying like a b____. Not saying that you are. Believe me. I'd say. Yeah I said what I said. Perhaps, it's best to believe in the scouting you have. Which I do. And start watching some MACtion on ESPN. Start watching some Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Some St. Cloud State. Because the name brand irrelevant Bama, USC, and Florida players will go in the first few rounds. The scouts have to step up to account for the Tomlin effect. The board needs to step it up with Alabama A&M talent. And it needs to be the best collective effort of all-time.

I also wouldn't be opposed to taking our 41st overall pick, adding a 4th, and a 2021 pick to end up back in the first round. Which I think they will. Since, 1st rd picks are the lifeblood of a NFL franchise.

We're not the Houston Texans.

.... I literally just commented on this post right before this and you thought THIS was a good idea?

 

There's a reason you had to attempt to edit that word. You're well aware that it is against thee rules AND you're attacking another member?

 

@Money - consider this a warning. Knock it off.

[3rivers]

Trading RD1 pick for a proven vet is a good thing  unless we fail and the pick ends up being a high pick AND the draft class is legit. In essence it's similar to trading up, but the player is already proven to be legit in the PRO"s. I would like them to do this more often, if the player really suits their needs. Look at the RD1 picks of jarvis and dupree at OLB.  Would you trade those RD1 picks for  Woodley who was a RD2 pick?  I would. It's not something that could happen every year, but it might be feasible almost every other year.

It's not often teams will trade a good player unless there are issues, so that's always a concern too. 

 

[Money]

5 minutes ago, steelcurtain29 said:

.... I literally just commented on this post right before this and you thought THIS was a good idea?

 

There's a reason you had to attempt to edit that word. You're well aware that it is against thee rules AND you're attacking another member?

 

@Money - consider this a warning. Knock it off.

Yes. Don't cry like a BABY

[steelcurtain29]

2 minutes ago, Money said:

Yes. Don't cry like a BABY

... You realize I was see how many times you used the underscore when I used the underline feature, right?

You clearly did NOT say baby. Knock it off.