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43 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

If we trade for Williams before extending Yannick, he might as well pull a Jalen too

What Jalen did isn't the norm...

I highly, highly doubt that happens.

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19 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

What Jalen did isn't the norm...

I highly, highly doubt that happens.

I agree but I think it sets a bad precedent for our front office to bring in another high level talent that needs an extension without taking care of the guys that have already proven themselves for THIS organization

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15 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I agree but I think it sets a bad precedent for our front office to bring in another high level talent that needs an extension without taking care of the guys that have already proven themselves for THIS organization

Bringing in someone to help win would set a bed precedent?

Not like we're paying Williams immediately.

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1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

Bringing in someone to help win would set a bed precedent?

Not like we're paying Williams immediately.

Considering he is a FA at the end of the season, trading for him means we would very likely be extending him soon after

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Leonard Williams really isn't a great target for the Jaguars, given our timeline/cap and all that. I think Yann, at some point, gets an extension done before this season is over now that Jalen's contract is no longer hanging over our heads. As much as it sucks to see Jalen go, getting those FRPs help given the vets we are likely going to have to let go due to cap purposes. When we traded for Dobbs, we talked about how valuable that 5th round pick is with possible cuts of Calais, Dareus, Bouye, Linder, and Hayden in the off-season. 

The downside to this is our depth at corner, or lack of. A full season of Herndon at starting corner? Oy vey. And that's not even mentioning the inconsistencies at safety.

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5 minutes ago, Speedyg said:

Leonard Williams really isn't a great target for the Jaguars, given our timeline/cap and all that. I think Yann, at some point, gets an extension done before this season is over now that Jalen's contract is no longer hanging over our heads. As much as it sucks to see Jalen go, getting those FRPs help given the vets we are likely going to have to let go due to cap purposes. When we traded for Dobbs, we talked about how valuable that 5th round pick is with possible cuts of Calais, Dareus, Bouye, Linder, and Hayden in the off-season. 

The downside to this is our depth at corner, or lack of. A full season of Herndon at starting corner? Oy vey. And that's not even mentioning the inconsistencies at safety.

Haven't even thought Herndon has played bad considering what he got thrown into and teams specifically going after him.

Not great, but given the situation and how young he is I think he's been fine. Not to mention the pass rush has been lacking.

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26 minutes ago, Speedyg said:

Leonard Williams really isn't a great target for the Jaguars, given our timeline/cap and all that. I think Yann, at some point, gets an extension done before this season is over now that Jalen's contract is no longer hanging over our heads. As much as it sucks to see Jalen go, getting those FRPs help given the vets we are likely going to have to let go due to cap purposes. When we traded for Dobbs, we talked about how valuable that 5th round pick is with possible cuts of Calais, Dareus, Bouye, Linder, and Hayden in the off-season. 

The downside to this is our depth at corner, or lack of. A full season of Herndon at starting corner? Oy vey. And that's not even mentioning the inconsistencies at safety.

The Dobbs trade was a panic move but weren’t we all panicked when we heard broken clavicle? I suppose they could have signed a FA QB but who?

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Just now, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

The Dobbs trade was a panic move but weren’t we all panicked when we heard broken clavicle? I suppose they could have signed a FA QB but who?

I was on the side of signing anyone that wouldn't have cost us draft picks. Dobbs is taking this team no farther than random vet FA QB, so why waste draft capital on him?

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25 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Haven't even thought Herndon has played bad considering what he got thrown into and teams specifically going after him.

Not great, but given the situation and how young he is I think he's been fine. Not to mention the pass rush has been lacking.

I don't think he's played "bad", but there's a clear cut drop off from AJ at one corner, Hayden as a nickel, and him starting at the other end. It's not like he's blowing coverages left and right, he's just always a step behind it seems to make a play. We've also been fortunate enough that the games Jalen missed, it hasn't been against "good" QBs, and they still went after him and found success.

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2 hours ago, Speedyg said:

Leonard Williams really isn't a great target for the Jaguars, given our timeline/cap and all that. I think Yann, at some point, gets an extension done before this season is over now that Jalen's contract is no longer hanging over our heads. As much as it sucks to see Jalen go, getting those FRPs help given the vets we are likely going to have to let go due to cap purposes. When we traded for Dobbs, we talked about how valuable that 5th round pick is with possible cuts of Calais, Dareus, Bouye, Linder, and Hayden in the off-season. 

The downside to this is our depth at corner, or lack of. A full season of Herndon at starting corner? Oy vey. And that's not even mentioning the inconsistencies at safety.

Yeah.  I'd think CB probably moves toward the top of the list of "needs" for this team.  Who knows how much longer Bouye is kept around, or continues to play at a solid level.  Probably longer now that we won't have a megadollar CB across from him in Jalen...but still uncertain how long he's here.  And there's a real drop-off after that.

Whether that's a trade, FA acquisition, or just drafting a rookie and throwing them in there (which is risky)...that's a spot that needs to be addressed at some point.

 

1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

Haven't even thought Herndon has played bad considering what he got thrown into and teams specifically going after him.

Not great, but given the situation and how young he is I think he's been fine. Not to mention the pass rush has been lacking.

I think there's a difference between, "he hasn't been that bad considering the circumstances", and...he's been good.  It's a rough situation and he's done as well as could reasonably be expected under the circumstances...but i don't know that he's been good enough to think that's the long-term answer.  Doesn't need to be an elite guy like Jalen to replace him...but you do need at least two solid (scheme fit) CBs in this league.

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1 hour ago, Speedyg said:

I was on the side of signing anyone that wouldn't have cost us draft picks. Dobbs is taking this team no farther than random vet FA QB, so why waste draft capital on him?

Yeah.  It was an absolute re-run of the Carlos Hyde trade, as far as i'm concerned.

Though funny enough, the Steelers probably wouldn't mind still having him around at this point either.

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1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

Yeah.  I'd think CB probably moves toward the top of the list of "needs" for this team.  Who knows how much longer Bouye is kept around, or continues to play at a solid level.  Probably longer now that we won't have a megadollar CB across from him in Jalen...but still uncertain how long he's here.  And there's a real drop-off after that.

Whether that's a trade, FA acquisition, or just drafting a rookie and throwing them in there (which is risky)...that's a spot that needs to be addressed at some point.

 

I think there's a difference between, "he hasn't been that bad considering the circumstances", and...he's been good.  It's a rough situation and he's done as well as could reasonably be expected under the circumstances...but i don't know that he's been good enough to think that's the long-term answer.  Doesn't need to be an elite guy like Jalen to replace him...but you do need at least two solid (scheme fit) CBs in this league.

I'm not even sure he's good enough to be a "short-term" answer.

I guess it's kind of the problem with signing a guy like DJ Hayden to the kind of deal we signed him to. He's played very well, but I'm not sure he goes out to #2 on base formations, does he? If he has that ability, it wouldn't be too bad. But to basically put it in perspective, Herndon was supposed to be our dime corner, with Jalen/AJ/DJ ahead of him. Now, because of Jalen being gone and DJ playing well at nickel, our 4th corner moves up to #2. That's not a recipe for success for most #4 corners in just about any depth chart.

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Dareus will be gone (maybe restructured?). There’s 20M in cap space.

Marqise Lee saves you 5M.

Jake Ryan saves you 6M.

Swaim saves you 4M. 

 

That’s 35M in cap space freed up right there. With Yan the only FA worth a damn that we should keep.

 

2021 is when the real purge happens. Foles and Norwell probably out the door. Maybe Bouye? There’s 37M freed up. 

Fournette (CO), Cam, Dede, Smoot become FA’s.

We will have a lot of cap space heading into 2021 FA I believe.

 

whoever is in the FO the next couple of years will be pretty pleased with what they’ll be able to work with when it comes to picks and cap wise.

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1 hour ago, Speedyg said:

I'm not even sure he's good enough to be a "short-term" answer.

I guess it's kind of the problem with signing a guy like DJ Hayden to the kind of deal we signed him to. He's played very well, but I'm not sure he goes out to #2 on base formations, does he? If he has that ability, it wouldn't be too bad. But to basically put it in perspective, Herndon was supposed to be our dime corner, with Jalen/AJ/DJ ahead of him. Now, because of Jalen being gone and DJ playing well at nickel, our 4th corner moves up to #2. That's not a recipe for success for most #4 corners in just about any depth chart.

Yeah.  I'd agree on both components there.

On Herndon being a pretty questionably serviceable #2 CB "short term" though...it's a question of what you can actually do about it, at this point in the season.  Is the rest of this team good enough to justify being "buyers" sending out picks to fill that hole at this time of the year?  Or better to just ride it out and see if he miraculously improves as the year goes on...then patch that hole for real in the offseason.

It's a twofold problem.

1)Like you said, it's an issue with paying a NB the kind of money we gave Hayden.  It'd be one thing if he was going to step in as a solid enough outside corner...but he's seemed kinda shoehorned into the NB spot where he's actually good.  It's a lot of money to be spending on a guy with seemingly pretty limited flexibility.

2)It's turned into a mess because they refused to address the "Jalen issue" in the offseason.  Signs were there that he was already a bit cranky and might be leaning toward wanting to be moved.  If they'd made the move in the offseason, it would've avoided some "drama", while also affording them ample opportunity to patch that hole on the open market or in the draft.  Doing it at this point in the season...you're probably burning at least that extra 4th rounder we had thrown in to the Jalen trade, just to bring in a mediocre/serviceable CB.  Is that really something this team should be doing this season?  Trying to patch holes in season is always more expensive than proactively patching them when the market is at it's fullest.

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9 hours ago, Speedyg said:

I was on the side of signing anyone that wouldn't have cost us draft picks. Dobbs is taking this team no farther than random vet FA QB, so why waste draft capital on him?

I'm guessing the cost to pay a FA QB hurts our rollover cap more than what a 5th is worth?

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