Whats up with Baker

[mistakey]

49 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

Would everyone just relax already with the angry faces? You're giving Tayne an ulcer emoji.

[brownie man]

I find it ironic Baker has Less TDs More INTs and a lesser passer rating than Daniel Jones in more games then Jones with more talent than Jones. 
 

Since Jones is probably out for the season I feel like this deserves to be said 

 

are we in trouble?

[candyman93]

5 minutes ago, brownie man said:

I find it ironic Baker has Less TDs More INTs and a lesser passer rating than Daniel Jones in more games then Jones with more talent than Jones. 
 

Since Jones is probably out for the season I feel like this deserves to be said 

 

are we in trouble?

No.

 

 

However it’s clear as day baker needs elite OT’s. I don’t think interior pass rush affects him as bad as poor tackles.

[Mind Character]

4 hours ago, brownie man said:

I find it ironic Baker has Less TDs More INTs and a lesser passer rating than Daniel Jones in more games then Jones with more talent than Jones. 
Since Jones is probably out for the season I feel like this deserves to be said 

are we in trouble?

We don't know yet.

We could be; we could be just fine.

What is known now and I'm afraid goes directly against many people's non-reality based beliefs about Baker is that ge is in no way shape or form a Transcendent Elite QB. He's not able to put the team on his back or elevate the play of others via elite understanding and manipulation of defenses or elite timing/anticipatory throwing or elite WR-Pass-Catcher Chemistry in-syncness because of elite work habits in the off-season.

He is who many of us thought he was. A good, trailer QB who's success is pulled along/forward by surrounding talent. If his OLine is great and he has great playmakers then can he can be great. He won't pull players along to a high level like the Tractor, Transcendent players.

And... that's okay. He can still be good and a winning QB. He can still be a pro-bowl player that way.

To me, there are only 6 Transcendent, Tractor (Not Trailer) QBs that Have Ability to consistently transcend deficiencies around them and elevate the players around them:

1.) Russell Wilson

2.) Deshaun Watson

3.) Patrick Mahomes 

4.) Aaron Rodgers (fading some)

5.) Lamar Jackson (rising)

6.) Kyler Murray (will be there translating to wins by the end or year 2)

The rest fall in to being either elite, good, average, or below average Trailer QBs who depend a tremendous and out-sized amount on what surrounds them.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Mind Character

[DawgX]

8 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

We don't know yet.

We could be; we could be just fine.

What is known now and I'm afraid goes directly against many people's non-reality based beliefs about Baker is that is in no way shape or form a Transcendent Elite QB. He's not able to put the team on his back or elevate the play of others via elite understanding and manipulation of defenses or elite timing/anticipatory throwing or elite WR-Pass-Catcher Chemistry in-syncness because of elite work habits in the off-season.

He is who many of us thought he was. A good, trailer QB who's success is pulled along/forward by surrounding great OLine and great playmakers can he can be great. He won't pull players along to a high level like the Tractor, Transcendent players.

And... that's okay. He can still be good and a winning QB.

To me, there are only 6 Transcendent, Tractor (Not Trailer) QBs that Have Ability to consistently transcend deficiencies around them and elevate the players around them:

1.) Russell Wilson

2.) Deshaun Watson

3.) Patrick Mahomes 

4.) Aaron Rodgers (fading some)

5.) Lamar Jackson (rising)

6.) Kyler Murray (will be there translating to wins by the end or year 2)

The rest fall in to being either elite, good, average, or below average Trailer QBs who depend a tremendous and out-sized amount on what surrounds them.

I'm really not sure if Jackson falls into this category.

[bruceb]

16 minutes ago, DawgX said:

I'm really not sure if Jackson falls into this category.

He does now.

More importantly, Mayfield does not.

[Bonanza23]

2 hours ago, brownie man said:

I find it ironic Baker has Less TDs More INTs and a lesser passer rating than Daniel Jones in more games then Jones with more talent than Jones. 
 

Since Jones is probably out for the season I feel like this deserves to be said 

 

are we in trouble?

Like DeShone Kizer trouble, or second year starting Brett Favre trouble?

Edited December 6, 2019 by Bonanza23
I’m dumb

[Mind Character]

2 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Like DeShone Kizer trouble, or second year starting Brett Favre trouble?

We really have to stop comparing Baker to Favre. Baker's his own guy and stylistically probably compares more to a pro-bowl Jeff Garcia at the peak of his powers or an Andy Dalton.

Favre was a bigger, faster athlete and as good and amazing at times Baker's arm is Favre's was an otherworldly cannon. 

Favre unlike Baker spent countless hours with his Wide Receivers and Tight Ends often making up secret calls and their own plays even early on in his starting days. Baker hasn't shown that type of commitment yet. Brett wasn't a known study of defensive terminology or academic analyzer of defensive film but he had a special instinctual feel for the game that allowed him to produce magic on game day. Baker walks around like he has that special juice but he really doesn't or at least not yet.

A lot of Favre's interception were him trying to do absolutely absurd things with throws at the limit or exceeding the limit of arm talent not necessarily just being unable to feel/read defenses. Most of Baker's interceptions (beyond the tipped pass or bad luck ones) come from him just not knowing what is going on.

Baker's young and still be a truly great QB, but he ain't no Brett Favre and he likely never will be. And that's fine because Brett Favre is one of the all-time Greats. I just hope he'll be an all-time good player.

 

[Mind Character]

3 hours ago, DawgX said:

I'm really not sure if Jackson falls into this category.

If the offensive line is struggling (and they have a lot this year), he can transcend the issues with blitz avoidance and making plays off platform.

If his WRs aren't getting separation or having route issues, he can create time and extend plays.

If the RB running game isn't working, he can manufactures his own effective running attack.

If the Defense is struggling, his moving the chains conversion rate and methodical drives keeps the opposing offense off the field and tilts time of possession in favor of the ravens.

Look at how his teammates talk about him and are amazed by him; look at how they believe that he'll get them to a win.

It's early in his career and we don't know for sure where Lamar, Baker, Sam, Allen, etc will be in a few years, but right now Lamar Jackson absolutely is a transcendent QB.

[matt27j]

Lol...might as well downplay him now.

Maybe he didnt put that much effort in because he didnt think he needed to? He had a great first year.

Not Manziel, naturally accurate. He cares. Will put the work in knowing now it's not going to be so easy when facing good teams.

Elevated the team last year. He'll do it again. 

The biggest challenge for any Browns qb is making it through a full season. Even with Joe Thomas none have been able to do it. If Baker survives this season count it as a win. Of course that's a big if. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, matt27j said:

Maybe he didnt put that much effort in because he didnt think he needed to? He had a great first year.

 

I think you're probably right. That's likely the case as even he's stated he thought things would be easier.

If so, then he likely never will truly be great or elite as the elite athletes are never satisfied and are constantly seeking the next level beyond... often chasing perfect or next level mastery of their craft. 

If MJ or Lebron would've decided not to put in effort in their crafts and conditioning after enjoying early success, then they never would've achieved the levels of greatness they went on to achieve.

It's why players like DeShaun Watson used his own money on trainers, positional specialists, therapists, housing, and flights to work relentlessly with his receivers and skill position players this past off-season so that he would put himself in the position with his team to take the next step. On the weekends he flew the guys to Atlanta for celebration and relaxation then it was back to the grind.

I have no doubt Watson will do so again. Drew Brees is insane in the off-season as well. If Baker was putting in that type of work, trust me we'd hear about via a documentary series for his brand. The best minds and most relentless competitors are at this level of football. His talent took him as far as it was going to take him. Only his work and next level sacrifice will get him to the next level.

Hopefully, it starts with his willingness to hire an elite QB trainer and coach this off-season; one that could help him work through graduate-level defensive scheme reading and manipulation. Elements of mechanical work plus chemistry work with the skill players.

Without such things, Baker won't be ever be elite.

For all the talk pre-draft about how much of a next-level competitor he is and how hard he worked as a walk-on, he's got his butt kicked this season. Hopefully it ignites the competitive fire within and fuels him to greatness.

We need it... desperately.

[Kiwibrown]

2 hours ago, Mind Character said:

I think you're probably right. That's likely the case as even he's stated he thought things would be easier.

If so, then he likely never will truly be great or elite as the elite athletes are never satisfied and are constantly seeking the next level beyond... often chasing perfect or next level mastery of their craft. 

If MJ or Lebron would've decided not to put in effort in their crafts and conditioning after enjoying early success, then they never would've achieved the levels of greatness they went on to achieve.

It's why players like DeShaun Watson used his own money on trainers, positional specialists, therapists, housing, and flights to work relentlessly with his receivers and skill position players this past off-season so that he would put himself in the position with his team to take the next step. On the weekends he flew the guys to Atlanta for celebration and relaxation then it was back to the grind.

I have no doubt Watson will do so again. Drew Brees is insane in the off-season as well. If Baker was putting in that type of work, trust me we'd hear about via a documentary series for his brand. The best minds and most relentless competitors are at this level of football. His talent took him as far as it was going to take him. Only his work and next level sacrifice will get him to the next level.

Hopefully, it starts with his willingness to hire an elite QB trainer and coach this off-season; one that could help him work through graduate-level defensive scheme reading and manipulation. Elements of mechanical work plus chemistry work with the skill players.

Without such things, Baker won't be ever be elite.

For all the talk pre-draft about how much of a next-level competitor he is and how hard he worked as a walk-on, he's got his butt kicked this season. Hopefully it ignites the competitive fire within and fuels him to greatness.

We need it... desperately.

We get to figure out who baker is next year. 

Next season he wont have $ from advertising thrown at, he got married. A lot that takes away from focusing on football.

 We have failed to meet expectations. He isnt the it young  hot qb by a long shot, he is moving towarda irrelevancy. 

He, obj, and mykes get to nut up, or shut up. 

[DawgX]

6 hours ago, Mind Character said:

If the offensive line is struggling (and they have a lot this year), he can transcend the issues with blitz avoidance and making plays off platform.

If his WRs aren't getting separation or having route issues, he can create time and extend plays.

If the RB running game isn't working, he can manufactures his own effective running attack.

If the Defense is struggling, his moving the chains conversion rate and methodical drives keeps the opposing offense off the field and tilts time of possession in favor of the ravens.

Look at how his teammates talk about him and are amazed by him; look at how they believe that he'll get them to a win.

It's early in his career and we don't know for sure where Lamar, Baker, Sam, Allen, etc will be in a few years, but right now Lamar Jackson absolutely is a transcendent QB.

Baltimore's offensive line has been pretty good this year. Certainly much better than ours.

Biggest difference is that Baltimore's coaching staff has done a great job at playing to Lamar's strengths and they do a great job at scheming guys open - something we haven't done on a consistent basis this year to say the least. How often is Lamar forced to make tight window throws? Rarely from what I've seen, and I've seen numerous Ravens games this year. The majority of his passes are to receivers who are wide open.

I'm not saying Lamar isn't having a great year, because he obviously is. But I think it's far too early to call him a transcendent QB. 

[Kiwibrown]

3 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Baltimore's offensive line has been pretty good this year. Certainly much better than ours.

Biggest difference is that Baltimore's coaching staff has done a great job at playing to Lamar's strengths and they do a great job at scheming guys open - something we haven't done on a consistent basis this year to say the least. How often is Lamar forced to make tight window throws? Rarely from what I've seen, and I've seen numerous Ravens games this year. The majority of his passes are to receivers who are wide open.

I'm not saying Lamar isn't having a great year, because he obviously is. But I think it's far too early to call him a transcendent QB. 

His play style wont work forever, i can see him having a Cam style drop off down the track, people say he doesnt take hits, but he takes one good  hit each game i have seen, more so in year 1 when they were running him up the gut. 

To his credit his passing has got a lot better, the onus is on Baker to catch up to him in terms of play, the same goes for dorsey in terms of getting the guys at key positions, especially tackle, and freddie as a coach.

 

 

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, DawgX said:

Baltimore's offensive line has been pretty good this year. Certainly much better than ours.

Biggest difference is that Baltimore's coaching staff has done a great job at playing to Lamar's strengths and they do a great job at scheming guys open - something we haven't done on a consistent basis this year to say the least. How often is Lamar forced to make tight window throws? Rarely from what I've seen, and I've seen numerous Ravens games this year. The majority of his passes are to receivers who are wide open.

I'm not saying Lamar isn't having a great year, because he obviously is. But I think it's far too early to call him a transcendent QB. 

This