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CBrownsman

Whats up with Baker

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4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If you’re using your teeth you’re doing it wrong my guy.

Disagree.

Tiny bites can be titillating.

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I’ll tell you what’s up with Baker, new system that might not work, getting the calls in way too late and he may be jittery about the oline. 

Come on Kitchens just let him be who he is. 

I have a feeling when Mayfield gets more experience he’ll be calling his own plays. Kid is intelligent and talented. Monken will be gone by the end of the season, this season will have failed with the Kitchens/Monken blend. I’ve read about the heat between the two and I’m seeing the product. 

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25 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Disagree.

Tiny bites can be titillating.

Stop pretending you still have your teeth bruce.

Gumming the Mrs. doesn’t count.

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I wonder if monken is involved on th3 play calls, monken to freddie to baker we have had relay systems beofe or other teams have. Monken needs to be right there on the ground not in the box of that is the case.

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29 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Stop pretending you still have your teeth bruce.

Gumming the Mrs. doesn’t count.

Still have them all.

My life insurance agent says that's a good thing.:D

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27 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

I wonder if monken is involved on th3 play calls, monken to freddie to baker we have had relay systems beofe or other teams have. Monken needs to be right there on the ground not in the box of that is the case.

Seems this is one level of the O dysfunction.

Plays getting in late.

Slow developing play calls.

Mayfield no time to read the D.

Based on last year I thought Kitchens was smarter than this.

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4 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

I wonder if monken is involved on th3 play calls, monken to freddie to baker we have had relay systems beofe or other teams have. Monken needs to be right there on the ground not in the box of that is the case.

not even that, the playcalling has no flow to them. Some of the best drives by this team have come off opening positions of the halfs. when they had time to script plays together

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Mayfield is a rhythm QB and while he can complete 60% of his passes and throw for 300 yards per game in any system he is going to be at his best when there is uptempo and he has time to make adjustments before the snap. I agree with Bonanza that eventually he will call his own plays and play at his own tempo. The sooner that happens the sooner our offense will be dynamic. I assume our coaches don't believe he is ready for that yet but it will happen, it has to. When it does our offense will look a lot better. Right now we just have to watch it in the 2:00 offense and dream about it being our base offense.

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On 9/17/2019 at 10:04 AM, CBrownsman said:

Lol yeah playing like we have played were not winning 10 games.  Our offense needs to click and he's the key.

Hes on pace for 4800 yards but hes also on pace for 32 interceptions and 16 touchdowns so ya know...there's that...

well he is 6-5 with Freddie in his ear plus I get Calloway and Kareem right as the schedule gets easier .

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On 9/20/2019 at 8:26 PM, buno67 said:

not even that, the playcalling has no flow to them. Some of the best drives by this team have come off opening positions of the halfs. when they had time to script plays together

Watch out Buno I am going to beat you out for homer of the year this year

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50 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

Watch out Buno I am going to beat you out for homer of the year this year

It's cute that you think you have a chance at dethroning Buno. ;) 

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(( ********* Long Post Alert ******** Don't Read ))

As with all things in life, all phenomena are multiply determined by various factors/variables with some Factors being more important in determining the outcome than others.

So, while there are multiple factors that determine and result in "Baker Struggling" some are more important than others. In my opinion, they are the following:

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1.) Offensive Play-calling and/or the scheme not giving Baker easy answers and flexibility pre-snap at identifying What's to Come on Defense

  The Best Offenses in football: Saints (Carmichael/Payton), Rams (McVay), Chiefs (Reid), Cowboys (Moore), Eagles (Pederson), Patriots (Belichick/Mcdaniels) do what Bill Walsh and Erhardt-Perkins followers believe is necessary for success:

A.) Get the defense to declare their hand or give cues as to what they will do pre-snap via scheming, pre-snap motion, dummy or real audibles verbal calls or hand signals

B.) Prepare before the game for the QB to have immediate answers and flexible solutions for how the defense reacts to scheme, pre-snap motion, formation shifts, or dummy/real audible calls based on defensive coordinators history and how that coordinator may try to stay unpredictable.

C.) Shift and control Tempo and speed of play in ways to keep the defense on their heels.

D.) Get the play-call in as fast as possible so the QB has time to diagnose the defense and manipulate it pre-snap

E.) Treat RB passes or WR screens as an extension of the run game.

F.} Stick with the Run game to keep defenses guessing.

Our offense has done none of this. No scheme variance to get as we've been 11-personnel over 80% of our snaps approximately (so the scheme doesn't get the defense to declare and defenses know what's coming). We are dead last in the league in using pre-snap motion. We are constantly getting the play in late. Baker has no time pre-snap to diagnose and/or manipulate defenses nor does the offense seem to have built in quick solutions that can be flexible based on defensive declarations.

2.) Injuries/Unavailability at OLine and WR

Early season instability at OLine and Antonio Callaway's suspension taking away the dynamic speed space opener necessary to be on the field whenever Jarvis Landry is in has created both an shaky pocket and tighter windows for Baker to work through. Even when there is no real pressure or OLine issue Baker is sensing that there is and fleeing the pocket early or speeding up his feet falling off platform because he doesn't trust that he has the time.

3.) QB-WR Time on Task: 

OBJ and Baker just haven't had the requisite time together to be completely in sync which causes Baker to press to get it in his hands to improve their connection even at the cost of getting easy completions or working through progressions in ways to take the easy yards.

4.) QB Coaching Philosophy and Expertise:

People didn't think much when this happened but we are missing Ken Zampese tremendously imo. No matter the jokes about Zampese with Andy Dalton or whoever, Non-Hue Respected expert QB coaches and QBs believe that Ken Zampese is one of the best QB coaches in the league due to his unique approach to what he calls "eye focus and defensive manipulation training" and his rigorous wide view coaching approach to having the QB understand the big picture and how his footwork, eyes and decision making. Back when he was the coach at Cincy he would give Clinics for high school and pro coaches alike much like Mr. Wylie did. One year Jim Fassel and Marty Schottenheimer were there as speakers and I remember both remarking how Zampese is "Elite" at QB coaching.

I know nothing about Ryan Lindley's QB coaching. I know he did pre-draft prep stuff for QBs. I also know that what a person is as a player doesn't always effect coaching. BUT as a player Lindley had terrible slow and bad eyes; he had terrible slow and sloppy footwork, he was a late read arm talent chucker; he couldn't recognize the blitz and took terrible sacks; he didn't play with rhythm nor did he play with pace or really any intuitive feel for the game. It's hard for me to believe that this is QB coach that we want to develop Baker our franchise QB as the years go one just b/c Lindley knows Freddie's offense. Now, Lindley might be the most amazing QB coach on Earth, but I strongly doubt it. Baker's mechanics and eyes look off this year and one can only wonder or attribute it some to coaching right or wrong.

5.) Defensive Coaches and players have had a year to analyze Freddie's offense and Baker's game:

Coaches have had all year to see exactly how Baker likes quick rhythm routes  and how Freddie can telegraph what he's play-calling. As result, teams our sitting on routes and anticipating our play-calls.

6.) Young QB Growing pains: 

No matter who crowns a QB after one season, or who throws a QB in the trash after one season of play, the truth is you don't really know what a QB is until aorund their 35th-40th career start. Some come out the gate on fire and fall to average or below average. Others start out terrible or slow and get to above average. Some are good from the start, have growing pains in the middle, and become elite when it's all said and done. We just don't know yet what Baker is, but it certainly looks very promising. Right now he's having some growing pains. He may indeed have more or look worse. That doesn't mean he's not going to have a career as an elite QB. Only time will tell. He's barely at 15 career starts. 

-------------

We still have time to turn it around. The most troubling thing to me is what seems to have happened with Bakers mechanics and eyes along with the stagnant and predictable play-calling and schemes without helping Baker out with pre-snap defensive answers for the post-snap test. I'll be looking for more pre-snap motions or schemes that make defenses declare and/or for Freddie to get out of 11 personnel predictable 10 yard out play-calls. Getting a new QB coach asap is on my radar even if the offense gets back to having success. 

Edited by Mind Character

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There are two possibilities: 

1. Either Baker is momentarily not good and Kitchens has made him this way. 

2. Baker is bad now and only stares down his primary target. 

 

Neither option is good, but I'd argue it's easier to get a different playcaller rather than a different franchise QB. 

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