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Whats up with Baker

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12 hours ago, NateDawg said:

At this point I’m just tired of seeing or hearing anyone on this team in the media for any reason beyond individual ownership of a failed season. Don’t care the mitigating factors. Been a long season and fanhood in general. Commit the offseason to improving and not personal branding and kindling the hype machine. I will let myself get excited again when the talent translates to winning football. Fool me once. 

Never seena team wine their way to the playoffs.

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52 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Never seena team wine their way to the playoffs.

You shoulda seen my adult softball team in ‘04.

We wined and beered and liq’d our way to the playoffs.

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7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You shoulda seen my adult softball team in ‘04.

We wined and beered and liq’d our way to the playoffs.

Did you whin in the playoffs?

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3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You shoulda seen my adult softball team in ‘04.

We wined and beered and liq’d our way to the playoffs.

I have been in some rugby teams that did the same

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40 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

I have been in some rugby teams that did the same

We played some flag football teams from Pittsburgh and some of the teams smelled like alcohol and others smelled like weed. They all beat us anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

We played some flag football teams from Pittsburgh and some of the teams smelled like alcohol and others smelled like weed. They all beat us anyway.

Did you alert the authorities??

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52 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Did you alert the authorities??

No but we played the Wheeling PD, they beat us too.

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Some Emotionally Immature and/or Lack of Emotional Discipline Baker events (None would matter if Baker was playing well):

1.) (This one mattered no matter what) Talking about Duke Johnson like he did causing Sheldon Richardson, Olivier Vernon, Joel Bitonio and Jarvis Landry having a talk with him.

2.) Thinking it was going to be easy and not putting in the next level, elite effort to give himself the opportunity to take the next step.

3.) Related to the previous ... being all in on the celebrity and fame of being a QB before he truly arrived.

4.) Blowing up after being baited by Tony Grossi but even worse Tweeting about it to the Twitter troll world

5.) When presented with an opportunity to build OBJ up, he bashes the training staff instead of just saying "OBJ's been a warrior playing through injury; we love him for that; and we're all going to keep working until we can improve as a unit to be where we want to be." Then has to Tweeterverse again.

-----

None of those things are fatal. This off-season is put up or shut up. Everything we were told about Baker suggests these are the moments when he shines. Contrary to what people bragged about him during the draft process, his college film showed a player that didn't elevate consistently in big moments relative to other elite QBs in the same and recent drafts. I hope this is his time to prove all the doubters wrong by tuning everything out and chasing that next level of greatness.

The good news is Dorsey will continue to surround Baker with talent so if Baker doesn't get into the elite grind and mature this off-season we'll know by the end of year 3 whether or not he's the guy or not and will know unlike many teams that languish with a QB for 5 years to no avail whether or not we need to regrettably look elsewhere.

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18 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Related to the previous ... being all in on the celebrity and fame of being a QB before he truly arrived.

Was he all about being the celebrity and fame tho? Yeah he did the commercials but are you really going to turn down the money to do those tho? I think he would be about that fame if he was going out in LA or Southbeach with other stars and whatnot just partying it up. I’ll never complain about a player getting his when it comes to commercial. Can’t just turn those Down assuming they will be there later on. 
 

I think the biggest issue was the HC hire. I had zero issues cause I thought that buddy buddy attitude/relationship would workout but it seems like it has been a failure and should only be for the likes of OCs or assistants. Seems like he needs a strict type coach. The entire team does. Someone to be the head hardass and than the players can have a more friendly Coordinators or positions coaches 

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3 hours ago, Mind Character said:

2.) Thinking it was going to be easy and not putting in the next level, elite effort to give himself the opportunity to take the next step.

This gets mentioned all of the time here but I have never seen reports of anything to prove this is factual or even a rumor yet it gets stated as fact over and over.

Nothing else relates to on the field stuff so whatever, if we were 10-3 and Baker had good stats none of this gets mentioned.

Baker, considering his elite arm has been underwhelming this year. He has been very unlucky, probably 2/3 of his picks went off of receiver's hands whether because the pass was too hot, high or behind or just a drop those aren't going to turn into the interceptions at that rate in an average season. With the offensive line struggles the pace of the offense isn't ideal for Baker either who works much better uptempo. I think our starters on offense need to be better prepared next year. Way too much repositioning of players presnap this year which causes illegal motion penalties with multiple offensive players moving without all of them getting set before the snap.

Only 3 games left for the light to come on for the offense and we probably need at least a 3 game sample size to feel good about it going forward so if it doesn't start this week and extend to the end of the year there will need to be some changes or serious adjustments this offseason.

As far as getting rid of Baker after next year that isn't happening. I still wouldn't trade him for many starters at the position because his tools as a passer are greater than 90% of the starters out there. I'd trade him for Mahommes, Watson and Wilson and that's it. Brady/Brees/Rodgers are too old and Dak/Wentz/Goff have their own warts they have to improve upon.

Lamar is obviously instant offense as long as his legs hold up but he is already crying about teams tackling him low and they are asking the league to look into it and call penalties when teams tackle him low (which isn't a penalty outside of the pocket) and if the time comes when his legs no longer work I wouldn't want him as my QB.

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52 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

As far as getting rid of Baker after next year that isn't happening.

Didn't say get rid of him. That would be utter madness considering the QB market. I just meant that because of what we'll have heading into next year we'll have the diagnostic info on Baker after year 3 imo for the GM to proceed with planned search for the next guy whether that be starting to take mid-round shots or bringing in a bridge guy to push Baker with the thought that draft capital and/or other resources would need to be devoted and planned out for following year (after year 4) to potentially improve the position.

 

55 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

probably 2/3 of his picks went off of receiver's hands

Tipped passes get picked in this league. It's an analytic fact that he's been unlucky this season, but attributing the bad balls to bad luck as opposed to him making his own bad luck most of the time due to errant throws would be the wrong analysis imo.

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Mahommes, Watson and Wilson and that's it. Brady/Brees/Rodgers are too old and Dak/Wentz/Goff

Goff probably not. Wentz and Dak are a no only because of holding out the belief that Baker will get to that next level after a bumpy 2nd year.

But if I ask myself what Wentz, Dak, Jimmy G, Kirk Cousins, and Derek Carr would do with the same offensive tools this year, it would far outpace Baker and most would have us square in the playoff race. Baker has youth and inexperience on his side. A year from now, in the event that he has 2 bad years back to back a trade straight up for one of those guys might look a lot different value-wise.

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10 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

But if I ask myself what Wentz, Dak, Jimmy G, Kirk Cousins, and Derek Carr would do with the same offensive tools this year, it would far outpace Baker and most would have us square in the playoff race. Baker has youth and inexperience on his side. A year from now, in the event that he has 2 bad years back to back a trade straight up for one of those guys might look a lot different value-wise.

Well Baker had less tools last year (theoretically anyway) and far exceeded what he has done this year. Dak certainly has a better situation around him than Baker does. We have a great RB, an average run blocking line (generous) and below average pass blocking line (generous). We've had street guys at TE. Landry as our #1 WR. OBJ has been JAG. The rest of our receivers are literally JAGs. Meanwhile Baker has a higher sack rate than any of those guys, much higher than Dak and Carr. Maybe a lot is on Baker, watching it I don't see it being mainly him but maybe I'm wrong. Obviously some is on coaching. However the think a huge issue was the expectations of our offseason acquisitions, OBJ, Vernon and Richardson really haven't played at an above average level the majority of the time so the talent that it looked like we would be trotting out there was a little deceiving. Expectations from returning players like Higgins, Njoku, Ogunjobi and Randall haven't been there whether due to injury or just disappearing.

I think we had a better offense last year talent wise, with OBJ not being healthy or always 100% interested and the drop off in our line. Defense has been a wash, we've missed a lot of time from starters but we did last year too.

Our #4 WR last year had a lot more yards than our #3, #4,#5 and #6 WR's have this year combined. Teams know it's probably Landry or OBJ and then an occasional toss to the TE and Baker not having time a lot of the time to come off of his 1st or second read is throwing it to one of them even though there isn't any separation and hoping they make a play and frankly Landry has done that a lot more than OBJ this year.

As far as Baker's value it is probably fairly low right now but I think you could get more than a 1st round pick for him which says something (if it's true) for a 2nd year QB who currently has more picks than TDs on the season. I still think worst case scenario Baker becomes a great game manager. Obviously that isn't what we are asking right now but if things don't improve maybe we try that route after building our line this offseason and we try to be the Cowboys of 2016.

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1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

I still wouldn't trade him for many starters at the position because his tools as a passer are greater than 90% of the starters out there. I'd trade him for Mahommes, Watson and Wilson and that's it. Brady/Brees/Rodgers are too old and Dak/Wentz/Goff have their own warts they have to improve upon.

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7 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

However the think a huge issue was the expectations of our offseason acquisitions, OBJ, Vernon and Richardson really haven't played at an above average level the majority of the time so the talent that it looked like we would be trotting out there was a little deceiving.

As far as Baker's value it is probably fairly low right now but I think you could get more than a 1st round pick for him which says something (if it's true) for a 2nd year QB who currently has more picks than TDs on the season.

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