Kiwibrown Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) Marshall Faulk and Luke kuechly were rumored to not look like nfl players when they were in their prime. Duke Johnson looks like a guy on the street. Big ben looked like a college d3 guard that doesnt get playing time. Vernon gholston had a hof physique, Greg Little was in incredible shape. Looked like tarzan played like jane Unless someone has a gut like peak kelvin benjiman, non story. Edited February 1, 2020 by Kiwibrown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 21 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Marshall Faulk and Luke kuechly were rumored to not look like nfl players when they were in their prime. Duke Johnson looks like a guy on the street. Big ben looked like a college d3 guard that doesnt get playing time. Vernon gholston had a hof physique, Greg Little was in incredible shape. Looked like tarzan played like jane Unless someone has a gut like peak kelvin benjiman, non story. So you’re saying my gut is a story? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, NudeTayne said: You're still speaking in some absolutes there IMO. That said, I agree with everything but the bolded. I don't see adequate supporting evidence of the first statement in any way that seems especially unusual to someone in his position. He is outspoken--which I love about him TBH--and has been too thin-skinned, but hasn't behaved like Antonio Brown. He's not dating Instagram celebs or Kardashians. I don't see a huge ego at all. It really does seem like you're singling him out. We all have big egos. Him doing commercials is weak sauce and you need to let it go. It's a bad take. Everyone who can do them does them. It doesn't take much time to do and does not make it so a guy can't be prepared. Again, bad take. Let it go. He didn't say he won't be coached. I'll halfway agree that his dismissive attitude played poorly from an optics standpoint. I hope he will accept more help wherever it is offered. Baker is indeed not terrible or perfect at this point. I stand by this narrative crap being lame, as it doesn't seem fair and leans more toward "because this, probably not the guy". People are not saying he's not in optimal shape; you are extrapolating that his body fat % suggests whether or not he's committed to being great. I believe that's a bit broad and we don't enough good data to believe that (yet). I hear your points about the QB trainer thing and saying he thought it would go another naturally, but I still see a narrative more than solid evidence--agree to disagree there. He has definitely made some missteps and I see him owning them, not running from them like an AB. You saying how worried you are that he's not the guy, well, worry less 😂. He's shown a lot and just going into year three. This year is indeed crucial, I agree. But I see a guy who is going to be in the Pro Bowl convo this coming year and it sounds like you'd bet against that--again, agree to disagree there. Celebrity, fame, and power are seductive forces that are hard to resist for anyone. There's a lot to be optimistic about when it comes to what Baker is likely to be as QB and leader of a franchise. There are definitely incorrect and convenient misperception narratives that get peddled around about Baker that have no basis in reality. However, I don't think it's a "narrative" to suggest that 1.) There's some negative trends, 2.) Th ere were signs of some of the negative trends in college that made their way to the pros, 3.) There's enough good mixed in with some negatives to acknowledge that we don't yet know how things will shake out. Recognizing and acknowledging the truth of a person's positive and negative aspects is not singling anyone out nor is it bashing someone. Recognizing and acknowledging that Baker has a huge ego is not a claim I've made to suggest such a quality is all bad or atypical of professional athletes. Human characteristics and personality traits are often double-edged swords that can help a person or hurt a person depending on how it's used. Saying someone wields a big double-edged sword (i.e., ego, irrational self-belief, emotional intensity) is not the same as saying a person is bad. Baker's ego, irrational self-belief, and emotional intensity are double-edged swords. I and many others including yourself have spoken of such things often in the past and present. There's a positive and negative dual nature to those traits such that the same characteristic that has helped Baker thrive in the NFL and get to this level is the same trait that can undo him and hurt his growth, success, and interpersonal relationships. My points have always been that when a person wields a double-edge sword they have to have a certain mastery or control of that tool to make sure they don't harm themselves and others. Baker at his younger age has yet to master and control such a tool. That's not to say that he can't, but I don't think it does him or anyone a service to act as if he doesn't have walk around with a huge double-edged sword (i.e., huge ego, irrational self-belief, and emotional intensity). Now, as to my claim that "he loves celebrity and fame," I base part of my evaluation on respected scout assessments of Baker coming out of college combined with my observations of his willingness to seek out celebrity spotlight and interactions. Interestingly enough, one of Dorsey and Scot McCloughan's public concerns with Baker were that he loved what came with NFL QB1 a little too much. They like many didn't think it was fatalistic and more having to do with the trappings of a young star athlete. Has nothing to do with doing commercials. There's a reason why he spends his off-season in Cali mingling with the stars and hobnobbing with Hollywood types and celebrities (his aspiring actress/model does too), and it's because being around the rich, powerful, and famous is a wild and good time. In moderation it's all good, but too much and one begins to lose focus on the main thing. And such activities though often suggested as such aren't what "everyone is doing." QBs in the league especially the elite ones are different cats who aren't out there like their teammates or less successful counterparts. Again, none of this is fatalistic for Baker's future success, and acknowledging trends isn't bashing. From the outside looking in, we have to assume many things that may not be the case. No matter what though I'm not sure how anyone can look at the data/evidence that's out there and think to themselves "Baker's an elite worker and preparation guy who trains and studies obsessively even in the "off-season" like his elite working counterparts. Even still what is/what isn't may not be in the future. Ultimatley we'll find out what's what in time. Edited February 1, 2020 by Mind Character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bonanza23 said: Wanna know who else has a habit of being “not in optimal shape and a little chubby”? It's these types of posts that illustrate a funny lack of understanding or even a basic grasp of the life of Tom Brady (or a wide-array of elite QBs in this era for that matter) or the arguments being made. Tom Brady is obsessed with living each day with maintaining elite sports performance in mind. He's structured his life around that end to the detriment of his children and family (not good). TB12, health, nutrition, and exercise nut, has a whole team devoted to maintaining optimal performance including sleep experts, cryotherapy experts, pays for his fitness and nutrition team to travel with him; pliability/yoga/core strength instructors on the daily, trains with a team of QB, offense, and defensive exports on his QB skills development, and trains with his core offensive weapons. A picture of Tom Brady not ripped like DK Metcalf isn't proof of Baker's commitment or lack thereof to QB training off-season work or his commitment or lack thereof to implementing or preparing his own elite sports performance team of experts to help prepare him to pursue elite performance. That's not to say that Baker isn't going to implement such things in the future or learn that in order to compete with the elite that he has to step up into elite preparation. Brady like most QBs didn't have it all figured out when he entered the league, but that was a different time and place when sports performance technology, training, and understanding was different. Brady soon after entering the league became ahead of the curve in his prep. Nowadays, athletes start the elite sports performance lifestyle in college and expand it in the NFL much like the likes of Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, and Carson Wentz. They've all bought into a life-style of preparation and training that only gives them a chance and doesn't guarantee to perform at an elite level once the season commences. Based on Baker's public statements and his past/present activities there doesn't seem to be requisite evidence to suggest that Baker has bought in to an elite sports performance lifestyle. It matters much more for a QB like Baker instead of for a a QB like Big Ben b/c of the disparity in natural physical athletic gifts. What also goes missing is how clearly Baker was in better shape prior years to this year and that's even controlling for the desire to add some weight and strength to absorb NFL contact. As I've said before, none of this is fatal for Baker's future success but it certainly isn't an upward trend or something to point to as a positive. Edited February 1, 2020 by Mind Character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 ^^^ You're exhausting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mind Character said: in order to compete with the elite that he has to step up into elite preparation. This is what I am waiting to see. And wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: Marshall Faulk and Luke kuechly were rumored to not look like nfl players when they were in their prime. Duke Johnson looks like a guy on the street. Big ben looked like a college d3 guard that doesnt get playing time. Vernon gholston had a hof physique, Greg Little was in incredible shape. Looked like tarzan played like jane Unless someone has a gut like peak kelvin benjiman, non story. Misses the point. Boiling the argument down to "Does he look good physically? If yes, he's working hard and is going to be great; If no, he's not working hard and he's going to be bad" is a bad oversimplification and not at all the point that's been made. Baker is not like every other QB. He's short, not fast or ultra athletic. His winning edge is not the same winning edge of QBs like Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, or Big Ben. He's doesn't play the position that Marshall Faulk or Duke Johnson played where their athletic gifting let's them shine in various areas. All of those QBs can use their rare athletic gifts to help them make winning plays be it their ability to run and evade defenders or their ability to stand strong in the pocket and shrug off or slip off defenders while buying extra time and space to make winning plays. Baker has really nice arm talent but it's not that of a Big Ben, Wentz, or Mahomes; it's certainly better than Deshaun or Lamar's arm. So, what is Baker's winning edge? History and performance suggests that his winning edge is Preparation, Developing a next level understanding of Defense and how to manipulate it, and being able to quickly and accurately place the ball in spots to beat defenders. That takes elite preparation, off-season training, and off-season and during season QB skills development. That's the Drew Brees and Tom Brady playbook for elite sports performance; that is, what it takes to be elite when you're a QB with athletic deficiencies. So, did Baker prepare like an elite sports performance QB in his first full-offseason heading into his 2nd year? By all accounts including Baker's and the offensive playmakers around him the answer to that question is no. Now, he's young. A lot of QBs get to that point faster than others and not everyone comes out the gate with elite preparation and sports performance commitment like Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, and Carson Wentz. Baker still has still has time. Then the interesting question: What evidence do we have to believe that Baker will find that elite preparation and high-level sports performance and QB training groove this off-season? Well, for starters he said he's not going to work with the expert QB trainers but that he'd do things on his own (we have no reason to yet believe that isn't the case). Secondly, he doesn't appear to be in the best of off-season shape (though that alone means nothing). Though there usually is overlap in an athlete's commitment to a lifestyle of elite sports performance preparation and their physical fitness. That's not always the case (especially with naturally big guys with crazy natural athletic talent like Big Ben), but generally speaking an obsessive athlete who takes their QB training/drilling seriously with daily routines often has a stringent diet/nutrition and exercise and recovery routine. Engaged or Obsessive daily work habits tend to find their way to other aspects of living. So, in the end you very well might be right that Baker's outward body/physical fitness might not actually be indicative of an overall work habit/routine approach to his QB skills development, but in truth physical fitness is often indicative of other underlying approaches to elite work habits and athletic performance. In the end, because of Baker's athletic limitations he has to invest more and find a winning edge in his training and preparation for the season much like the Brady and Brees. Those guides approached the off-season different than how Baker has to this point approached it given the limited information we've had until this point. We don't have all the info and Baker is still young and can grow and learn, but there are plenty of reasons to believe he might not have gone all in yet on the things he needs to do to take that next step. Even if he doesn't the Browns can still have success based on how the team is built around him. Edited February 1, 2020 by Mind Character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, DawgX said: ^^^ You're exhausting. Good news for you charlatans is that as draft day is nigh so to is my post-draft 5-month hibernation and internet slumber until the start of the season.... ... soon you all shall once again be free to roam these internet lands with gay and merry hearts away from reason and long-posts... the foolery that will commence when I'm gone will be the likes these FF-lands have not heretofore seen.... The slumber ... is nigh.. Edited February 2, 2020 by Mind Character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 2 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said: So you’re saying my gut is a story? Dont know, send dm's 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: Misses the point. I don't think i have. Obviously Quarterback is a position that preperation is of utmost importance. But whether he looks good or not, is going to really tell us that. Tom Brady looks like a depressed insurance salesmen, not the goat. Judging by their appearnce, as long as it not jamarcus russel fat does not dictate whether they are ready to go. Baker is not going to lose funcrional speed over 5 pounds. Baker was not completely prepared, obj wasnt, the team wasn't, the scheme wasn't, last year was a crap storm. Freddie told Baker to take the off season off, it did not work, Kevin has told him to work. The glory of the 2020 season is we get to find out who Baker is at this stage of his career, franchise qb, or bratty entitled millenial. What has changed this off season is that Baker was the most important person in the organization, now he is, it has shifted to Stephanski. Edited February 1, 2020 by Kiwibrown 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Good news for you charlatans is that the as draft day is nigh so to is my post-draft 5-month hibernation and internet slumber until the start of the season.... ... soon you all shall once again be free to roam these internet lands with gay and merry hearts away from reason and long-posts... the foolery that will commence when I'm gone will be the likes these FF-lands have not heretofore seen.... The slumber ... is nigh.. 1 hour ago, DawgX said: ^^^ You're exhausting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I love you though Mind. I also kind of hate you with every fiber of my being, but there's still love in my heart for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DawgX said: I love you though Mind. I also kind of hate you with every fiber of my being, but there's still love in my heart for you. So true. Some days I wanna tongue kiss him, others I wanna cube stomp him a la American History X. I think the takeaway is it’s a good thing we only interact over the internets. Unless he likes kinky ish. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Mind Character said: It's these types of posts that illustrate a funny lack of understanding or even a basic grasp of the life of Tom Brady (or a wide-array of elite QBs in this era for that matter) or the arguments being made. Tom Brady is obsessed with living each day with maintaining elite sports performance in mind. He's structured his life around that end to the detriment of his children and family (not good). TB12, health, nutrition, and exercise nut, has a whole team devoted to maintaining optimal performance including sleep experts, cryotherapy experts, pays for his fitness and nutrition team to travel with him; pliability/yoga/core strength instructors on the daily, trains with a team of QB, offense, and defensive exports on his QB skills development, and trains with his core offensive weapons. A picture of Tom Brady not ripped like DK Metcalf isn't proof of Baker's commitment or lack thereof to QB training off-season work or his commitment or lack thereof to implementing or preparing his own elite sports performance team of experts to help prepare him to pursue elite performance. That's not to say that Baker isn't going to implement such things in the future or learn that in order to compete with the elite that he has to step up into elite preparation. Brady like most QBs didn't have it all figured out when he entered the league, but that was a different time and place when sports performance technology, training, and understanding was different. Brady soon after entering the league became ahead of the curve in his prep. Nowadays, athletes start the elite sports performance lifestyle in college and expand it in the NFL much like the likes of Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, and Carson Wentz. They've all bought into a life-style of preparation and training that only gives them a chance and doesn't guarantee to perform at an elite level once the season commences. Based on Baker's public statements and his past/present activities there doesn't seem to be requisite evidence to suggest that Baker has bought in to an elite sports performance lifestyle. It matters much more for a QB like Baker instead of for a a QB like Big Ben b/c of the disparity in natural physical athletic gifts. What also goes missing is how clearly Baker was in better shape prior years to this year and that's even controlling for the desire to add some weight and strength to absorb NFL contact. As I've said before, none of this is fatal for Baker's future success but it certainly isn't an upward trend or something to point to as a positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, DawgX said: I hate you though Mind. I also kind of love you with every fiber of my being, but there's still hate in my heart for you. 2 hours ago, DawgX said: I love you though Mind. I also kind of hate you with every fiber of my being, but there's still love in my heart for you. Lol kinda these. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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