Whats up with Baker

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

What was your teams 2019 record.

 

[MWil23]

If we have another year like last year my fall free time will drastically open up.

[MWil23]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I mean, I’m extremely confident and can say beyond a doubt that our entire HS staff is the most analytics driven team in Southwest Ohio, but in HS it’s easier to make in game decisions to that end due in large part to the lack of legitimate punting, kicking, and kickoff threats.

For example, we are known for onside kicking CONSTANTLY, but we also did a thorough analytical analysis that our KO Coverage average field position was the 42, so forfeiting another 6-9 yards while having the opportunity for an extra possession was a no brainer.

Similarly the same metrics should be used on draft picks, free agent money, etc, especially in the salary cap era/sport.

 

3 hours ago, NateDawg said:

What was your teams 2019 record.

I was in charge of 3rd/4th downs, analyzing trends and patterns in plays/players, formations, etc. to add to this.

It was really hard for us to get to 3rd down, unfortunately...

[buno67]

18 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

 

I was in charge of 3rd/4th downs, analyzing trends and patterns in plays/players, formations, etc. to add to this.

It was really hard for us to get to 3rd down, unfortunately...

I know a team in NEO where the head coach is super analytical. Carries around a special spread sheet with him that tells him the stats and percentages of when to go for it on 4th down depending on the yardage to go and where you are on the field, when to go for 2pts, when to onside kick it. 
 

[buno67]

5 hours ago, Mind Character said:

Who's ready for the Baker DocuSeries with a camera crew following his QB preparation for next year.

Much like his DocuSeries headed into the his year's draft, but this time it will be sponsored by Progressive and Holiday Inn Express.

Oddly enough, the docuseries featured him running on the beach. Maybe he can bring a QB trainer there this time.

Well he already knows the workouts of running on the beach, so why does he need to pay someone to tell him to do that. Gotta protect that money, that progressive money won’t always be there lol

[MWil23]

22 minutes ago, buno67 said:

I know a team in NEO where the head coach is super analytical. Carries around a special spread sheet with him that tells him the stats and percentages of when to go for it on 4th down depending on the yardage to go and where you are on the field, when to go for 2pts, when to onside kick it. 
 

Kenton is the ultimate example to the extreme. They never punt, always go for 2, always onside kick, etc., and they have been very successful doing it. I don’t know if anyone is that far, but I love bot simulation on down and distance and having all of that predetermined going into a game so that decision has already been made.

[buno67]

13 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Kenton is the ultimate example to the extreme. They never punt, always go for 2, always onside kick, etc., and they have been very successful doing it. I don’t know if anyone is that far, but I love bot simulation on down and distance and having all of that predetermined going into a game so that decision has already been made.

I think if the % was over 50% for the situation, the HC went for it. I remember reading about it cause the local newspaper talked about it and remember having to game plan against it my first year. I think as a coach, you have to fully accept the analytics of things. That alone gives you tendencies. My last year coach, I would keep track of our own tendencies and I would try and come up with a play or two to install for the week or what plays to run in certain situations, so they would be against our tendencies and we can catch the opposing off guard. I remember breaking down film to prepare for a team and notice that out of a certain formation, we ran nothing but power, it was crazy, it was something like the 23 times we showed this formation, we ran power 23 times. not surprised because it was our best play. So for the first play in our next game, we ran a play action off that play to open the game. WR was wide open because everyone bit hard but the freaking QB over threw our 6'5'' WR. Next play, QB throws a pick 6. Than the kickoff, our returner botched catching the kick and the opposing team recovered it and scored 3 plays later. game got out of hand very quick

[Rod Johnson]

6 hours ago, big poppa pump said:

I mean call it what you want.  It's pure stupidity on a coach's part to NOT do what your most successful at.  It shows how truly out of depth that Freddie was.  If you wanna call that analytics....great.  There are high school coaches that watch film, and look at tendencies to figure out what the other team does in certain down and distances.  With someone that is handing that info to you, and you still ignore it....then..you get fired.

Yeah you don't need to be an analytics expert to know we weren't playing to Baker's strengths with 5 step drops out of shotgun.  Just kind of exposed Freddie as pants on head stupid watching Baker get destroyed the 2nd half of that Pittsburgh game trying to block his deep drops with our turnstile tackles.  I'm glad data exists, but when you're consistently going from 2nd and 5 to 3rd and 15 from sacks and penalties calling the same dumb stuff you should have the common sense to identify the problem.

I'm all for hiring Stefanski or another "analytics" coach but I'm not going to paint sensible play calling as something that requires a 150+ IQ.  I would be very surprised if not every team in the league was aware of their success rate calling certain plays, as well as their opponents.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Rod Johnson

[NateDawg]

I am 100% in favor of finding a coach and staff that are going to put our quarterback in a position to be successful. Just putting this out there though, there is only so much that a coach, any coach, can do about playing to one guy’s strengths. Mayfield is good at the RPO and struggles dropping back to pass from under center or really dropping back on anything beyond a three step drop. He also can’t roll to his left and make throws. This guy was the first pick of the draft. He needs to get better at this stuff. He needs to work with somebody. Sure, play to his strengths, but he needs to find more strengths in general and fewer weaknesses,  because you can’t just limit your offense to a few things. During the season, there is only so much you can do. Play to his strengths at that point but the off-season needs to be about establishing more things for him to be good at. I am really hoping that there is a lot of improvement this off-season. Once the season rolls around, it is what it is.

[NudeTayne]

6 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I am 100% in favor of finding a coach and staff that are going to put our quarterback in a position to be successful. Just putting this out there though, there is only so much that a coach, any coach, can do about playing to one guy’s strengths. Mayfield is good at the RPO and struggles dropping back to pass from under center or really dropping back on anything beyond a three step drop. He also can’t roll to his left and make throws. This guy was the first pick of the draft. He needs to get better at this stuff. He needs to work with somebody. Sure, play to his strengths, but he needs to find more strengths in general and fewer weaknesses,  because you can’t just limit your offense to a few things. During the season, there is only so much you can do. Play to his strengths at that point but the off-season needs to be about establishing more things for him to be good at. I am really hoping that there is a lot of improvement this off-season. Once the season rolls around, it is what it is.

Just you watch. Baker is gonna silence all doubt next season. Even (and especially) Tayne could have run this offense better than the trash heap that was this team. Baker needs to get better, and he will. Mark Tayne's words.

[NateDawg]

1 minute ago, NudeTayne said:

Just you watch. Baker is gonna silence all doubt next season. Even (and especially) Tayne could have run this offense better than the trash heap that was this team. Baker needs to get better, and he will. Mark Tayne's words.

I hope you are right Tayne! 

[mistakey]

1 hour ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yeah you don't need to be an analytics expert to know we weren't playing to Baker's strengths with 5 step drops out of shotgun.  Just kind of exposed Freddie as pants on head stupid watching Baker get destroyed the 2nd half of that Pittsburgh game trying to block his deep drops with our turnstile tackles.  I'm glad data exists, but when you're consistently going from 2nd and 5 to 3rd and 15 from sacks and penalties calling the same dumb stuff you should have the common sense to identify the problem.

I'm all for hiring Stefanski or another "analytics" coach but I'm not going to paint sensible play calling as something that requires a 150+ IQ.  I would be very surprised if not every team in the league was aware of their success rate calling certain plays, as well as their opponents.

the point of using analytics is by having nerds tell you where you do well and do bad so you dont have to be super brain genius. . .

[NudeTayne]

12 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I hope you are right Tayne! 

, he says to the clairvoyant. 🤔

Edited January 4, 2020 by NudeTayne

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yeah you don't need to be an analytics expert to know we weren't playing to Baker's strengths with 5 step drops out of shotgun.  Just kind of exposed Freddie as pants on head stupid watching Baker get destroyed the 2nd half of that Pittsburgh game trying to block his deep drops with our turnstile tackles.  I'm glad data exists, but when you're consistently going from 2nd and 5 to 3rd and 15 from sacks and penalties calling the same dumb stuff you should have the common sense to identify the problem.

I'm all for hiring Stefanski or another "analytics" coach but I'm not going to paint sensible play calling as something that requires a 150+ IQ.  I would be very surprised if not every team in the league was aware of their success rate calling certain plays, as well as their opponents.

 

9 hours ago, mistakey said:

the point of using analytics is by having nerds tell you where you do well and do bad so you dont have to be super brain genius. . .

To add to mistakey’s point, the point of analytics is also so you don’t have to adjust on the fly when you see things around working.

If you’re doing it right, you’ll have data on hand that gives the best options based on various situations.

It’s not just realizing that you can’t run deep drops against a good pass rush, analytics will provide the best formations, personnel groupings, etc to run the offense most efficiently.  It’s stuff that even a genius isn’t going to be able to process in game, on the fly.

People’s lack of understanding analytics in general has led to incorrect assumptions, dismissal of its value, etc., but it’s simply data.  So when a guy like Dorsey comes in a tosses a binder full of this collected data in the garbage, that’s a BIG problem.  It shows his ego is too fragile to accept that someone else may be able to provide value info to help with the process and/or he feels threatened that someone else might look good.

[Rod Johnson]

13 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

 

To add to mistakey’s point, the point of analytics is also so you don’t have to adjust on the fly when you see things around working.

If you’re doing it right, you’ll have data on hand that gives the best options based on various situations.

It’s not just realizing that you can’t run deep drops against a good pass rush, analytics will provide the best formations, personnel groupings, etc to run the offense most efficiently.  It’s stuff that even a genius isn’t going to be able to process in game, on the fly.

People’s lack of understanding analytics in general has led to incorrect assumptions, dismissal of its value, etc., but it’s simply data.  So when a guy like Dorsey comes in a tosses a binder full of this collected data in the garbage, that’s a BIG problem.  It shows his ego is too fragile to accept that someone else may be able to provide value info to help with the process and/or he feels threatened that someone else might look good.

Good points.

I still think it's reflective of Freddie's lack of judgement and ability that something so obviously a problem couldn't be corrected in game or even over the course of the season.  I trust Dorsey's ability to judge talent over what our analytics heavy front office was doing.  I won't really defend him past that because he sucked at a lot of aspects of GMing.

Still think that the fans screaming for analytics are investing as much blind faith in it as the people who taut the intuitive football guy approach.  This high level data exists and is being utilized in ways fans don't really have access to.  Maybe what our team needed was a coach that would teach Baker how to step up in the pocket as much as they needed a detailed analysis of what personnel groupings would succeed.

To me "analytics" is just another buzzword to simplify what's needed to succeed in the NFL as much as "west coast concepts" was being used when we were sucking off the Holmgren/Shurmur era.  Every team already uses it, and some are more successful because of it than others.  When you're a fan that's so rabid about the idea that you'd defend trading back until the end of time or drafting Owen Marecic then you've confused being a zealot with intelligence.