2020 College Prospects

[paul-mac]

11 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Just got done watching Hunter Bryant.  I like him.  I’ve seen Kmet, Trautman, and Hopkins and while Bryant looks the smallest, he’s a superior blocker to the above 3 names.

Can’t see us being in the market for a tight end in the early or mid rounds. Reckon we roll with Fant and Vannett. 

[germ-x]

21 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

Can’t see us being in the market for a tight end in the early or mid rounds. Reckon we roll with Fant and Vannett. 

Oh yeah for sure.  I’m just trying to get through 150 players since I have time.  

[candyman93]

Like I said before I think a trade between Cleveland and Denver is happening. 
 

Woody Paige says you guys want to trade up to 10 or 8 and get Jeudy.

[jsthomp2007]

Totally down to trade up for Jeudy.

[Cutler06]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

Like I said before I think a trade between Cleveland and Denver is happening. 
 

Woody Paige says you guys want to trade up to 10 or 8 and get Jeudy.

What are you guys gonna do with that extra 4th and 2 7th's we give ya. for the 10th pick ??   

[DiehardBronxFan]

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Will be disappointed if we trade up for a Round 1 WR, particularly given the insane depth of this WR class.  A poor use of our draft resources.  

[thebestever6]

12 hours ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Will be disappointed if we trade up for a Round 1 WR, particularly given the insane depth of this WR class.  A poor use of our draft resources.  

I mean Jeudy probably is hands down the best wr in the draft. Honestly the only worrisome is the 9 wonderlic. I mean has there been other wonderlic that translated to the NFL.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

I mean Jeudy probably is hands down the best wr in the draft. Honestly the only worrisome is the 9 wonderlic. I mean has there been other wonderlic that translated to the NFL.

Wonderlic is a dubious test now even in a vacuum for what it was originally designed for, but it's an awful test for positions that don't require mental processing.   AJ Green 10, MoClaiborne 4, Patrick Peterson 10, Frank Gore 6.    If you've got exceptional talent, Wonderlic skills for WR/CB's are pretty much meaningless.   And scoring a 9 vs. an 18 doesn't mean you have half the skills, either.   Given it's out of 50, we shouldn't think ppl who score 18-20 are suddenly smart guys, and guys who score 9-10 as cognitively impaired red-flag guys.

The common theme - positions & teams where the processing needs weren't that important, Wonderlic is a terrible tool to raise flags / even try to use it as some sort of tiebreaker.   Now, if a WR goes to a team that requires a LOT of option routes/reads, that puts more emphasis  between-the-ear skills on the WR (Patriots, for example) - and it's a huge reason why I think year 1 WR's struggle when they move up (besides adjusting to NFL level speed).    But again, even there, the Wonderlic is a rudimentary and outdated tool (see the 9-10 vs. 18-20 point).    Obviously, smart & motivated players do well (Fitzmagic set the record IIRC) - but using it without context is likely the same as taking a bench press for WR/CB - mostly if not completely useless given the positional skill set.

Re: Jeudy, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take him.   His Wonderlic score doesn't give me pause (and to be clear, the 1st-year rookie learning curve risk applies to him, Lamb, Ruggs, Jefferson, etc. - whoever - why I was hoping us to see Elway hit mid-level FA for WR2 this year, even a Rd1 rookie I would caution on unrealistic expectations year 1 - again, even Deebo Samuel and AJ Brown were mostly 2H breakouts in their rookie years).

Edited April 20, 2020 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

23 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

curve risk applies to him, Lamb, Ruggs, Jefferson, etc. - whoever - why I was hoping us to see Elway hit mid-level FA for WR2 this year, even a Rd1 rookie I would caution on unrealistic expectations year 1 - again, even Deebo Samuel and AJ Brown were mostly 2H breakouts in their rookie years).

I would think Jeudy being the most gifted route running wr in the draft also helps the learning curve. Sutton is going to be option one, and I feel Fant might be option 2 I was impressed by Fant especially second have of the season.

AJ brown I thought he had 1000 yards and like 8tds.

[Broncofan]

36 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I would think Jeudy being the most gifted route running wr in the draft also helps the learning curve. Sutton is going to be option one, and I feel Fant might be option 2 I was impressed by Fant especially second have of the season.

AJ brown I thought he had 1000 yards and like 8tds.

Brown had 5 games with <30 yards Weeks 1-8 (no bye).    1 game with 100 yards. 22 catches, 353 yards.

Brown had 2 games with <35 yards Weeks 9-17 (week 11 bye).  4 games with 100 yards. 29 catches, 703 yards.

It's just hard to avoid the rookie learning curve year as a WR.   It's been done, but to bank on it as a team and pencil a guy in as the WR2, the odds are heavily stacked against it paying off in translating to winning games.    It's one of the reasons why I point to 2021+ as the realistic window - we've come a long way since last year, but using the draft to fill multiple holes works long-term....rarely, year 1. 

You get the NO 2017 draft once a generation (and our path has been littered with disaster drafts like 2017, too - thankfully our UDFA's and 2018-9 methodology to more performance & metrics seems to be sticking)  - even great drafts usually need a year to pay off in a team-fortunes-altering kind of way.  The same principle applies to WR year 1 week 1-16 ability to step in - if it happens, awesome.   Planning for it as a team, though, is a low-odds scenario, even for Rd1.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Broncofan

[paul-mac]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Wonderlic is a dubious test now even in a vacuum for what it was originally designed for, but it's an awful test for positions that don't require mental processing.   AJ Green 10, MoClaiborne 4, Patrick Peterson 10, Frank Gore 6.    If you've got exceptional talent, Wonderlic skills for WR/CB's are pretty much meaningless.   And scoring a 9 vs. an 18 doesn't mean you have half the skills, either.   Given it's out of 50, we shouldn't think ppl who score 18-20 are suddenly smart guys, and guys who score 9-10 as cognitively impaired red-flag guys.

The common theme - positions & teams where the processing needs weren't that important, Wonderlic is a terrible tool to raise flags / even try to use it as some sort of tiebreaker.   Now, if a WR goes to a team that requires a LOT of option routes/reads, that puts more emphasis  between-the-ear skills on the WR (Patriots, for example) - and it's a huge reason why I think year 1 WR's struggle when they move up (besides adjusting to NFL level speed).    But again, even there, the Wonderlic is a rudimentary and outdated tool (see the 9-10 vs. 18-20 point).    Obviously, smart & motivated players do well (Fitzmagic set the record IIRC) - but using it without context is likely taking a bench press for WR/CB - mostly if not completely useless given the positional skill set.

Re: Jeudy, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take him.   His Wonderlic score doesn't give me pause (and to be clear, the 1st-year rookie learning curve risk applies to him, Lamb, Ruggs, Jefferson, etc. - whoever - why I was hoping us to see Elway hit mid-level FA for WR2 this year, even a Rd1 rookie I would caution on unrealistic expectations year 1 - again, even Deebo Samuel and AJ Brown were mostly 2H breakouts in their rookie years).

 

I just took the wonderlic and got a got a 37. Should Denver draft me in the second round?

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

 

I just took the wonderlic and got a got a 37. Should Denver draft me in the second round?

Well, you would have had the same team-changing impact as our 2013-7 second rounders (jury's still out on Walker, to be fair), so.....

(Thankfully that blind spot has been seemingly addressed)

Edited April 20, 2020 by Broncofan

[paul-mac]

Just now, Broncofan said:

Well, you would have had the same team-changing impact as our 2013-7 second rounders, so.....

(Thankfully that blind spot has been seemingly addressed)

 

Some of our second rounders in that run were awful. Are we ready to admit defeat on Demarcus Walker? Feels like he will play out his last year of his contract as a rotational defensive lineman and then he will walk and not get signed by anyone else.

 

Montee Ball had his moments but then Hillman/Anderson both outplayed him after he got injured and then proceded to drink himself out the league.

 

Cody Latimer, UGH. Traded up for 35 catches and 3 touchdowns in his entire rookie contract. He's still in the league at least. Same can be said for Ty Sambrailo, a shockingly bad pick who somehow is still in the NFL.

 

Adam Gotsis may actually be our best pick in that timeframe. He's still unsigned but expect him to catch on somewhere after the draft.

[Broncofan]

24 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

 

Some of our second rounders in that run were awful. Are we ready to admit defeat on Demarcus Walker? Feels like he will play out his last year of his contract as a rotational defensive lineman and then he will walk and not get signed by anyone else.

 

Montee Ball had his moments but then Hillman/Anderson both outplayed him after he got injured and then proceded to drink himself out the league.

 

Cody Latimer, UGH. Traded up for 35 catches and 3 touchdowns in his entire rookie contract. He's still in the league at least. Same can be said for Ty Sambrailo, a shockingly bad pick who somehow is still in the NFL.

 

Adam Gotsis may actually be our best pick in that timeframe. He's still unsigned but expect him to catch on somewhere after the draft.

And Gotsis was a rotation run stuffer.  For a 2nd round pick that’s an awful return.   Walker only has 1 year left - he’d have to be an impact pass rusher this year to make it even a wash and surpass Gotsis.   
 

It’s no coincidence why we struggled from 2016-present.  Our draft whiffs with early draft capital is still eye opening even when apologists point to whiff rates.  QB is always what casual fans point to but the draft keeps teams is sustained contention.  But it’s a long term tool.  

Our return to having more hope is because Elway’s switched from tools to skills, used more metrics - but also didn’t draft out of present-year need at all costs.   Spending early picks on Fant & Lock weren’t with winning in 2019 as the goal.  Hopefully he stays on point this week.  

Edited April 20, 2020 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

I’ve been trying to get through 150 prospects watching 2 games of each since schools shut down and I’ve been quarantined.  I am through 104 now, won’t make the 150 unless i cut it down to 1 game or half games for the last 46.