Evaluation of Offensive Talent

[Superman(DH23)]

23 hours ago, dll2000 said:

To me this is an indictment on our Oline which has been terrible this year.  By far my biggest disappointment while everyone else focuses their ire on MT.  

I no longer think we are a Super Bowl contender because of our Oline play.

Only thing worse is our TE blocking, but we thought that would be bad.  And it has been even worse than we thought.  

Its possible it can be turned around. 

While the oline play has been bad, let's remember that Nahy called 55 pass plays to 15 runs that game.  I think the playcalling was the biggest factor I  the loss.

[Sugashane]

8 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

While the oline play has been bad, let's remember that Nahy called 55 pass plays to 15 runs that game.  I think the playcalling was the biggest factor I  the loss.

That is a fair point,  and being the first live action seen was pointed out for their issues with handling simple twists and such. Neither should have happened though, both were pretty terrible. 

 

On the positive note Nagy's playcalling has gotten better each week and OL is too. My concern is how often the OL is getting handled 1 on 1. Hopefully they keep improving because there is way too much talent for that kind of play. 

[blkwdw13]

3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

That is a fair point,  and being the first live action seen was pointed out for their issues with handling simple twists and such. Neither should have happened though, both were pretty terrible. 

 

On the positive note Nagy's playcalling has gotten better each week and OL is too. My concern is how often the OL is getting handled 1 on 1. Hopefully they keep improving because there is way too much talent for that kind of play. 

Honestly I haven't seen the OL improved, I have seen the play calling and other players hide and mask how bad they really have been.

[dll2000]

11 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

Honestly I haven't seen the OL improved, I have seen the play calling and other players hide and mask how bad they really have been.

Unfortunately this is mostly true.  But there has been slight improvement week to week.  

[BACK2MACKSACK]

Now that the thread has winded down, I wanted to put my final stamp on my opinion.

QB Grade: C-/D+

Right now Mitch is our best option to win but around the league there are plenty of teams with better starting options. He has the physical tools but with our dysfunctional offensive line, we really can't get a good grasp of his talent in an ideal situation. I know people will point to other QBs we could have drafted but I believe system has a great influence on the development of a QB. The Chiefs and Texans have offenses that include elite offensive weapons. I feel that the O-Line is really holding this offense back both in the passing and running game. Right now, I'm looking forward to drafting another QB to replace him by 2020 unless this offense shows a vast improvement.

[beardown3231]

28 minutes ago, BACK2MACKSACK said:

Now that the thread has winded down, I wanted to put my final stamp on my opinion.

QB Grade: C-/D+

Right now Mitch is our best option to win but around the league there are plenty of teams with better starting options. He has the physical tools but with our dysfunctional offensive line, we really can't get a good grasp of his talent in an ideal situation. I know people will point to other QBs we could have drafted but I believe system has a great influence on the development of a QB. The Chiefs and Texans have offenses that include elite offensive weapons. I feel that the O-Line is really holding this offense back both in the passing and running game. Right now, I'm looking forward to drafting another QB to replace him by 2020 unless this offense shows a vast improvement.

Houston's OL sucks and that hasn't stopped Watson, although he's still way up and down for me. I'm not sure what the problem is here. Perhaps it was just a rough few games for Trubisky, Nagy and co and they'll be better moving forward

[abstract_thought]

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Houston's OL sucks and that hasn't stopped Watson, although he's still way up and down for me. I'm not sure what the problem is here. Perhaps it was just a rough few games for Trubisky, Nagy and co and they'll be better moving forward

I think Watson's more of a playmaking QB who will scramble and hide a bad OL. If Trubisky is going to succeed, it will be within a more structured offense with plenty of talent around him.

[JAF-N72EX]

7 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

I think Watson's more of a playmaking QB who will scramble and hide a bad OL

Not at all, man. Watson holds the ball WAY too long which makes the OL look much worse than they really are.  

7 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

If Trubisky is going to succeed, it will be within a more structured offense with plenty of talent around him.

It's been well noted that I am no Mitch apologist but every game starts up front on both sides of the ball and right now Mitch is not in an ideal situation to succeed by any means.

A combination of poor play-calling, poor pass protection, and a poor run game are a QB's worst nightmare.

[dll2000]

4 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Not at all, man. Watson holds the ball WAY too long which makes the OL look much worse than they really are.  

It's been well noted that I am no Mitch apologist but every game starts up front on both sides of the ball and right now Mitch is not in an ideal situation to succeed by any means.

A combination of poor play-calling, poor pass protection, and a poor run game are a QB's worst nightmare.

People say Nagy needs to run more so he is callng bad plays or is a bad play caller. In some cases it's true.  But much of time when he, or MT through check, forces a run into bad numbers - THAT is far worse.  Those are wasted downs.  THOSE are the bad play calls. 

If you run the ball for 2 yards on first or second you often have no choice but to pass twice unless they do something like drop 8.

The main problem is our Oline and TEs are not winning one on ones. 

Play calling and design is a numbers game.  You are trying to at least get get one on one's or if possible outnumber your opponent via motion or fake or flood or some combination.  

Nagy's designs are sound.  Players have to play and execute and win battles. 

Playing into bad numbers is almost always a losing proposition.  You can't just run more because your really want to if the defense doesn't feel like they have to fear and defend deep end of field. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by dll2000

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

People say Nagy needs to run more so he is callng bad plays or is a bad play caller. In some cases it's true.  But much of time when he, or MT through check, forces a run into bad numbers - THAT is far worse.  Those are wasted downs.  THOSE are the bad play calls. 

If you run the ball for 2 yards on first or second you often have no choice but to pass twice unless they do something like drop 8.

The main problem is our Oline and TEs are not winning one on ones. 

Play calling and design is a numbers game.  You are trying to at least get get one on one's or if possible outnumber your opponent via motion or fake or flood or some combination.  

Nagy's designs are sound.  Players have to play and execute and win battles. 

Playing into bad numbers is almost always a losing proposition.  You can't just run more because your really want to if the defense doesn't feel like they have to fear and defend deep end of field. 

Thats why I liked what Tom Moore did with Peyton Manning in IND for years.

 

He called almost nothing but pass plays, but Manning would see if he had an advantage either way and would audible to run insides or stretches to either side. Now Trubisky obviously isn't anywhere near Manning mentally and never will be, but that's where Helfrich and Nagy could relay information to him early in the playclock. 

 

Problem is that shotgun will severely limit the options of where to run though. Yeah you can go under center or pistol but after a few times the defense would definitely see the pattern. You'd be able to get a few PA or RPO opportunities to counter their adjustments but that's not a long term solution. 

[dll2000]

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Thats why I liked what Tom Moore did with Peyton Manning in IND for years.

 

He called almost nothing but pass plays, but Manning would see if he had an advantage either way and would audible to run insides or stretches to either side. Now Trubisky obviously isn't anywhere near Manning mentally and never will be, but that's where Helfrich and Nagy could relay information to him early in the playclock. 

 

Problem is that shotgun will severely limit the options of where to run though. Yeah you can go under center or pistol but after a few times the defense would definitely see the pattern. You'd be able to get a few PA or RPO opportunities to counter their adjustments but that's not a long term solution. 

It isn't that hard.  I literally had (some smart) 11 year olds audibile based on numbers or other simple factors depending on how defense lined up or sometimes based off where a dominate defensive player was or a positive match up for us.  That's without classroom time and 3 days a week.  

There was a play against Redskins I think where we had a WR uncovered.  MT saw it and started to change play and then guy realized and jogged over long before he got snap off.  Rodgers/Manning sees that and just snaps and fires off of a word or hand signal. Rodgers does it all time with guys trying to sub and gets his free 5 yards and play for 12 men   Why is this hard for other QBs?  Seems simple thing to do.  

You can run virtually any run play from gun with slight variations in alignment.

Football isn't rocket science. Problem is a lot of football players just aren't very smart.

Learning concepts and commiting them to muscle/mental memory can be tough as its can be more a skill than an intelligence thing.  But relatively speaking it isn't mentally difficult compared to a lot of things.