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Wolzen

What do we go in the 2020 draft?

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Denver needs help all over. CB, Ol, WR, ILB..... with that being said, what do you think we should do in the draft? Most likely a top 5 pick. My guess is the 3ed pick. 

I would like to trade down a few spots picking up more draft picks in 20 and 21. Then drafting a LT in the 1st. A ILB and a guard in the 2ed. 

I believe the OL is the biggest need and we need to focus on getting younger and better there if we want to start winning again.  Thoughts? 

Edited by Wolzen

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I'd play Lock a huge amount of time second half of the year maybe 8 games. Assuming James comes back. I think the line will improve somewhat. 

-There's no such thing as not ready in the NFL, with virtual reality bs, film, plays. He needs to get ready.

I'd trade Miller for best offer, Sanders, Harris when Callahan comes back , heck if Bears wanted Flacco bc of Mitch being an athlete or jag I'd do it. Sell mode. 

I like Fromm think hed fit this system perfectly/ what Vic wants to do. So Lock like I said better show something. 

Next year Line defense and offense, linebacker, corner, wr, QB are all avenues this team can take that's the beauty of having a thin roster.

 

Edited by thebestever6

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If Lock shows well in his late-season audition (and let's face it we know that's coming lol), pretty easy call to hit overall BPA.  We need EVERYTHING.

In that vein, if we aren't going QB - then we should think about trading back from top 5 (if we are there) to top 10 for a QB-needy team and get a foundation T, and get Day 1-2 picks that we we replenish other areas.  The beauty of that approcch is that since we need pretty much everything, we don't have to force a need pick.  It's the same formula that let Dalton Risner fall to us at 2.41 instead of reaching up for him.   I'd be all over that.

If Lock shows very little, then it's an interesting debate.   I say that as a someone with very little invested in Lock, and plenty of concerns given his profile and weaknesses.  Just that if he shows even OK progress in his late-season audition, it's going to be hard to cut bait, unless we get an elite grade on a QB we are picking at.   

Edited by Broncofan

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I think the most likely outcome is what you typically see when rookies get in for a few games late. About a 1:1 TD to turnover ratio, passer rating usually in the high 70s-mid 80s. The question I have is how bad he'd need to look for the team to abandon ship. 

Sounds kinda pathetic but it's not like they NEED the solution at QB next year. They can build everything around their projection of Lock and if it doesn't work out, they can try again in 2021 but with more pieces in place. 

Edited by BroncoBruin

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8 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

I think the most likely outcome is what you typically see when rookies get in for a few games late. About a 1:1 TD to turnover ratio, passer rating usually in the high 70s-mid 80s. The question I have is how bad he'd need to look for the team to abandon ship. 

Sounds kinda pathetic but it's not like they NEED the solution at QB next year. They can build everything around their projection of Lock and if it doesn't work out, they can try again in 2021 but with more pieces in place. 

I agree, get your pieces in place and get Trevor Lawrence in 21. 

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36 minutes ago, Wolzen said:

I agree, get your pieces in place and get Trevor Lawrence in 21. 

Lawrence is going to be coveted by many teams no guarantees.  

Lock may be talented enough to get us out of the Lawrence sweepstakes if the 2020 draft haul they get is promising enough.

The only way Lock stops me from going a guy like Fromm is if he looks like a completely different player. ( you can see the growth from preseason to his starts.) His flashes become the more consistent norm 10% to 30-50%. 

This is why I want a bigger sample size this season. You can still get Fromm and flip Lock for something if he develops still under contract 3 years being dependent on a generational prospect doesn't seem like a wise move unless a bounty of picks are aquired for 2021.

Edited by thebestever6

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Re: Lawrence, there are going to be 6-8 teams who will be trying as hard as we are.    And because some of those teams aren't under the illusion that we can contend each year (the notion Elway put forth all offseason long and spent $$ on guys like Kareem Jackson <nothing against him whatsoever, he's played well, but he's not a long-term piece at age 31>, and trading for Dekoda Watson speaks to this, so it's not just talk).    We'll never sniff the 1.1 pick, and that's what is needed to get Trevor Lawrence in 2021.   As long as Elway refuses to acknowledge a season is a rebuild in February, we could still be bad like 2017, but never 1.1.   And that means no Lawrence - especially with the ammo other rebuilding teams have to move up who would be close or ahead of us (cough, MIA, cough - I don't think they are tanking for Tua, I think they took Rosen to get 2 seasons and see where they are, but are going uber-long game with 2021 as the target) are already loading up for 2021's draft. 

I would re-iterate 2 key "big picture" points:

1.  We have to see what we have in Lock, and be as certain as possible about what we think he'll be long-term for 2020+ (realizing we can't be close to 100 percent certain after 1 year, but get as much info as possible before).  

2.  If we have an elite grade on QB Rd1 where we pick, then we have to go there if we are not sold on Lock as our guy.  Why #1 is so crucial.

Again, though, if we aren't going QB - this is the year to stay in the top 10, but trade back if we end up in a high spot.  The return will be very high, given the sudden loss of long-term QB's (Cam in CAR, and Brees' injury raises the future concerns, esp. if Bridgewater/Hill experiment doesnt' work out - it was fine yesterday, but that was a more a nod to the Saints D rising up and the godness that is Alvin Kamara).   There are 3-4 QB's with clear Rd1 consideration, so we could pull off an IND 2018 and really stock the roster.  But ONLY if we think we have our guy.  So as much as Flacco hasn't done anything to lose the job, when Lock is ready, assuming we are eliminated by Week 11-12, we should be planning for a 4-6 game audition at minimum for Lock. 

Edited by Broncofan

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I really don't understand the infatuation with this years class of QB's. I see a lot of boom/bust type prospects, but someone like Fromm just strikes me as a great, journeyman backup QB. Nothing about him is elite, especially not his arm strength. He reminds me of a Nick Mullens type, with slightly better intangibles. Same goes for Tu'a. I just don't see an elite NFL QB when I watch him play, and he benefits from having 3 receivers that could go in the first 40 picks. Herbert also just doesn't seem like a pro-player to me. Maybe I get Paxton Lynch flashbacks, but that's just me.

Honestly, I think you trade Von to a contender for a first and a third and then target......Jalen hurts in the backhalf of the first round. I think he would be an absolute dynamic playmaker in our offense. He's smart with the football, comes from a great program with a coach who has done wonders for two number one overall picks, and is a dynamic athlete with the ball in his hands. If he's available after pick 20, I would pull the trigger.

With our first pick, I think we end up in that 3-8 range, and could definitely benefit from trading back if there aren't any elite lineman. I think Chase Young or Espensa could be targets as well if Von walks, but with the amount of holes we have on this time, I think stockpiling picks would be a great move. 

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As long as Fangio has not shown improvement in his defense I do not see why Denver should adapt his offense and especially the QB. If we are 0-3 it is not the fault of Flacco or lock but of the defense. The first stone of the defense building is the linebacker position. In attack the real problem is the offensive line. These are the 2 priorities for the next draft. Choosing Fromm or Tua or Herbert would be a big mistake. None of these 3 will save the Broncos. Manning never succeeded without a minimum defnese at Indy or Denver. The SB 50 was won with the defense while the 48th where the attack exploded many records ended with a carnage against the Seattle defense.

Edited by French Fan

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1 hour ago, French Fan said:


 

As long as Fangio has not shown improvement in his defense I do not see why Denver should adapt his offense and especially the QB. If we are 0-3 it is not the fault of Flacco or lock but of the defense. The first stone of the defense building is the linebacker position. In attack the real problem is the offensive line. These are the 2 priorities for the next draft. Choosing Fromm or Tua or Herbert would be a big mistake. None of these 3 will save the Broncos. Manning never succeeded without a minimum defnese at Indy or Denver. The SB 50 was won with the defense while the 48th where the attack exploded many records ended with a carnage against the Seattle defense.

Denver is not going to be successful with Joe Flacco at QB. Not in this league. This year is shot. We all need to agree, so we have, what, two more years on the Flacco contract? And no clue if Lock is worth it?

If Denver is picking Top 5, they need to be drafting a QB. Unless it's determined Lock is worth it and we continue to give him the chance to develop. Then, Denver should look for either OL or DL help (IMO)

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6 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

If Denver is picking Top 5, they need to be drafting a QB. Unless it's determined Lock is worth it and we continue to give him the chance to develop

Agreed, QB play is sustainable when the guy is good whether whether the coach is the answer or not.

1 hour ago, French Fan said:

The SB 50 was won with the defense while the 48th where the attack exploded many records ended with a carnage against the Seattle defense.

I think you're taking for granted how generational the Seattle defense, and Denver defense was. 

It's statistically harder to build one of those defenses in todays NFL than it is to find a franchise QB in the top 10.

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2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Denver is not going to be successful with Joe Flacco at QB. Not in this league. This year is shot. We all need to agree, so we have, what, two more years on the Flacco contract? And no clue if Lock is worth it?

If Denver is picking Top 5, they need to be drafting a QB. Unless it's determined Lock is worth it and we continue to give him the chance to develop. Then, Denver should look for either OL or DL help (IMO)

Not to mention that a generational ILB is much harder to find, and so can't justify a top 5 pick.   Picking for need is the surest way to stay mired in mediocrity.

Having said that, we can't be reaching for QB need, if the guy is iffy.   I don't believe that will be the case, however, if we are picking in the top 5.    It's more about whether or not Lock is the guy.  And it's a matter of record what my concerns are - but he deserves every chance to prove himself - so I will put it on record I'll take every L from now on gladly - because every L gets us closer to throwing in the towel on Flacco (nothing against him, but he's not our future) - and getting Lock in there under center for as many games as possible.

Lock can't return until Week 9.   And we have a week 10 bye.   That would give Lock a 7-game audition.  As much as it pains a lot of fans to say it - we're better off if we are 3-6/2--7 then, or worse, because then there's ZERO illusion we can "salvage" a 8-8 season.   Which is meaningless to our long-term future - I don't want our players to try and lose, but if we try hard and still end up with a top 5 pick, we are way better off for the future.  And knowing where to target the top 5 pick is going to be key - so the sooner we get Drew Lock into the NFL game, the better.  Week 11 for a 7-game audition would be my ideal ETA, given his IR-return status, and understanding we'd likely be seeing him not at full-speed until the last 2-3 weeks.  But trial by fire is the only way to really see what we've got.  It's unfair, but if we have a top 5 pick, we have to know what we have.  MIA is doing the exact same with Rosen (who I still believe can be a franchise QB, but no way he succeeds in MIA's current situation - he actually played well for the first 3Q @DAL, until the OL gave up lol), and we should think no differently with Lock.

Edited by Broncofan
fixed, it's week 10 bye - nod to TBE6

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Speaking of ILB, I’ve heard Simmons mentioned, but curious for you guys who watch NCAAFB more than I who the potential “elite” guys are?

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I am really liking the idea of Jalen Hurts in the middle of R1 after trading down from our Top-5 pick, or trading up from R2. I think he can be a sort of supercharged Dak Prescott. Smart player who has the size to take licks when getting yards with his legs. Really great accuracy. I was fooled w/ Dak, with Lamar, with Kyler even to a lesser extent. I am ready to accept a dual threat QB as a viable option in this league. Also, I see little talent differential between Tua and Hurts.

If we could find a way to come out of the 2020 draft w/ Jalen Hurts and Laviska Shenault after trading down in R1, I would be estatic. Our offense would be transformed overnight. You could get so creative with those guys. Throw in a quality RB stable and Sutton developing outside, all we would need is a competent slot in FA (Phillip Dorsett?) and our weapons would be in place. Not to mention both Hurts and Shenault are tremendous personalities that would give this team a face, finally.

QB - Jalen Hurts

RB - Phillip Lindsay / Royce Freeman

RB - Andy Janovich

TE - Noah Fant

WR1 - Laviska Shenault

WR2 - Courtland Sutton

SLOT - Phillip Dorsett

That's a plethora of weapons. And with a mobile QB you don't have to worry about the OL talent as much.

 

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