Thoughts on young QBs?

[Nex_Gen]

I find Josh Allen pathetically overrated. Wish I could put it in a nicer way but I can't. He pulls off these 'heroics' against mediocre to bad teams, because he constantly puts the team in a hole in the first place, then gets praised for it. He's so damn predictable. If he keeps dropping back thinking he's the next Michael Vick and never bothers to improve in the passing game, it won't be long before he washes out of the league.

[ET80]

5 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

me thinks you have your drafts mixed up, unless your comparing Watson to Mariota

Yup, I do. 

[Trentwannabe]

8 hours ago, Nex_Gen said:

I find Josh Allen pathetically overrated. Wish I could put it in a nicer way but I can't. He pulls off these 'heroics' against mediocre to bad teams, because he constantly puts the team in a hole in the first place, then gets praised for it. He's so damn predictable. If he keeps dropping back thinking he's the next Michael Vick and never bothers to improve in the passing game, it won't be long before he washes out of the league.

I think this is a pretty generalized statement. 

His turnover against Cincy was absolutely awful. No question. And that was a turning point in the game. But he is completing 64% of his passes and for the most part taking what the defense gives him. If by predictable you mean connecting with his slot receiver and John Brown on the outside, then sure. 

[Raves]

22 hours ago, ET80 said:

Maybe it's the Texans fan in me... But I feel as if nobody talks about Deshaun Watson in these threads anymore.

Mahomes is the clear #1, but Watson has to be locked into that #2 spot.. with a pretty wide gap for #3.

I think even if you include the Goff/Wentz/Dak group of QBs that Watson is the clear #2 of the guys just finishing up rookie deals or younger.  Watson just feels like more of an elite QB every time I watch him play than any of those guys.  When Watson had the ball vs the Saints I actually feared what he would do, not because our defense and secondary is bad, but because I knew he would find a way to make a play.  Now that doesn't mean he's going to keep that spot.  The draft classes from this year and the next few might have someone that steps up and takes it from him, but right now I would be confident saying he's the 2nd best young QB behind Mahomie.

[SkippyX]

You want crazy?

Mahomes is now a career 115.3 rated passer over 20 games. (98.5 in 2 playoff games)

His entire career so far (20 games and counting) is like Foles 2013 or Manning 2013 or Brady 2007 or Brees 2018.

 

Take a look at the 3 defenses he has faced this year:

• Oakland gave up 364.5 yards per game in the other 2 games and 467 to KC
• Baltimore gave up 274.5 yards per game in 2 games and then 503 to KC.
• Jacksonville gave up 301.5 yards per game in their last 2 games and 491 to KC

This is with KC taking their foot off the gas in all three 4th quarters.

• 10 runs with 2 passes on the last 2 drives vs Baltimore
• 7 runs with no passers on the last 2 drives in Jacksonville
• They kept moving the ball on Oakland but the last 6:25 drive was a 6 runs and 6 passes ball control clock killer with a knee at the Oakland 23 to end the game.
  • 23 runs with 8 passes is not what you would call the Andy Reid playbook

Mahomes might throw for 6000 this year because 6500 is not needed.

 

 

[SkippyX]

Watson reminds me a lot of Wilson and Cunningham.

They make fantastic plays, win games, and put up numbers despite having trash for O-lines and facing crazy pressure.

I can't remember the game but Watson even had a Carl Banks type play where a defender nailed him and he just bounced backwards on his feet and hand and kept playing.

[Hunter2_1]

18 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Apparently Kyle Allen took only 15 minutes to get to his first post game presser. Newton always takes an hour. Doesn't mean anything huge, but thought it was interesting anyway. 

Michelangelo didn't paint the Last Judgement in a day....

 

[wackywabbit]

Lamar has the active streak of most consecutive regular season passes without a pick; its been 8 games since his last. His biggest issue last year was fumbling and he hasn't done it yet this year.

...I've jinxed him havent I?

[El Ramster]

1 minute ago, wackywabbit said:

Lamar has the active streak of most consecutive regular season passes without a pick; its been 8 games since his last. His biggest issue last year was fumbling and he hasn't done it yet this year.

...I've jinxed him havent I?

Heck of a RB you have there brother. Yall

better best Clev if not then you could just hand them the north. 

[SkippyX]

One problem I see with Lamar is that he throws some terrible passes that he just gets lucky on (so far).

He had one in the playoff game and one against the Chiefs that really stand out.

These were not great arm strength throws that just beat coverage. They were arm strength throws where the DBs just misplayed both balls.

You can close your eyes and run through traffic a few times without getting killed but it does not mean it's a way to live.

Edited September 24, 2019 by SkippyX

[bigbadbuff]

18 hours ago, Nex_Gen said:

I find Josh Allen pathetically overrated. Wish I could put it in a nicer way but I can't. He pulls off these 'heroics' against mediocre to bad teams, because he constantly puts the team in a hole in the first place, then gets praised for it. He's so damn predictable. If he keeps dropping back thinking he's the next Michael Vick and never bothers to improve in the passing game, it won't be long before he washes out of the league.

Someone hasn’t watched games tbh. It’s ok if you don’t, just don’t comment on them.  “Keeps dropping back thinking he’s Michael Vick” is how i know you are basing everything off of last season.

[wackywabbit]

21 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

One problem I see with Lamar is that he throws some terrible passes that he just gets lucky on (so far).

He had one in the playoff game and one against the Chiefs that really stand out.

These were not great arm strength throws that just beat coverage. They were arm strength throws where the DBs just misplayed both balls.

You can close your eyes and run through traffic a few times without getting killed but it does not mean it's a way to live.

This is why we need stats. True, Lamar threw up a couple prayers late in those games that could have been intercepted. However, the number of could-be-pick plays is MUCH greater than the number of actual picks for every QB. The easiest/laziest way to discredit any QB is to single out would-be interception plays. I.E: Mahomes doesn't have any interceptions this year, but he "got lucky" to not have 2 interceptions against the Ravens alone. There was a deep pass over the middle that went right through Patrick Onuasor's hands and ended up as a big completion. There was another play that he DID throw a pick, but it was called back by a PI flag that wasn't on the interceptor.

The "luck" factor will be evened out over 100s of throws. Unless you have a reliable source of passes that should have been picked, you have to use actual interceptions to make a fair comparison.

Edited September 24, 2019 by wackywabbit

[.Buzz]

 

[Texansfan713]

On 9/23/2019 at 3:02 PM, ET80 said:

People forget that Kyle Allen was neck and neck with Kyler Murray when both were at Texas A&M; Murray transferred to Oklahoma, where Lincoln Riley refined him to the #1 pick in the draft. Allen transferred to UH, where Major Applewhite did nothing similar to that.

Allen has a good arm and plus athleticism - not as athletic as Murray, but probably has a better arm. Had Allen transferred to UT and worked with Tom Hermann, maybe he would have been a better prospect going into his draft.

allen was overrated in college but im glad he is getting a chance to ball out with the panthers.  just hope he doesnt continue it this week. lol

Edited September 25, 2019 by Texansfan713

[wackywabbit]

3 hours ago, .Buzz said:

 

I should have been clearer. I know that there are rankings like this^ floating around, but I doubt the reliability of them and don't put much stock into them. They are putting an objective number on a subjective thing. It's always a judgement call to something a drop or say it should/could have been intercepted. If you look at receiver drop stats, you also get very different numbers from different sources and there should be a lot more variance with interceptions because defenders come away with far fewer of the passes they end up touching. Plus depending on the coverage, an interception may have been very unlikely even with a defender in the area. Or what if the QB knows the DB that doesn't play the ball/can't catch and throws right at him?  If someone is throwing a lot of intercept-able passes, it will show up in actual interceptions. You may lose some data, but I'd put more stock into that as it's at least a fair measure.