Chris Harris Jr Trade?

[thebestever6]

5 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

If they can't get a 3rd for Sanders, I think I'd rather keep him and give Lock a veteran WR to work with late in the season. He won't be back in 2020 but if the team's serious about evaluating Lock and make future-altering franchise decision based on whatever he shows, tough to give him one WR to throw to.

I get your logic to an extent. We're in uncharted territory with Sanders I've never seen a guy come back from a torn Achilles like this before. We also know about the Diva side and we could have an all day debate whether that is good for a rookie qb. Line play is shakey now hopefully it settles in by the time Lock auditions. 

My sell now price is a 4th still has 7+ mill on his deal for this year. If another wr isn't obtained I can voice your concerns as well. 

[thebestever6]

I'm interested to see Lock and Fant. I know the Missouri TE who was considered a first round talent is having a down year production wise I've heard.

[germ-x]

I really don’t see Sanders fetching that much, even though he’s a hell of a player.  Just don’t see there being that big of a market for an undersized 33 year old coming off a torn achilles, and being a rental.

I also don’t see the market for Harris really ramping up.  It won’t be as bad as the market for Sanders because of the position, but if Denver can grab a 4th they should, he has 0 chance of being back next year.

This is a big part of where Elway has failed.  He’s held onto players far past the point where he can get any realistic value for their production.  They’re old by NFL standards and on rental contracts who were kept to try and compete on a team that hasn’t sniffed the playoffs.  Elway should’ve realized this team couldn’t legitimately compete and been selling these guys when they could net legitimate value for their production.  

IMO, that along with the poor drafting has this team in the bind they’re currently in. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by germ-x

[germ-x]

2 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I really don’t see Sanders fetching that much, even though he’s a hell of a player.  Just don’t see there being that big of a market for an undersized 33 year old coming off a torn achilles, and being a rental.

I also don’t see the market for Harris really ramping up.  It won’t be as bad as the market for Sanders because of the position, but if Denver can grab a 4th they should, he has 0 chance of being back next year.

This is a big part of where Elway has failed.  He’s held onto players far past the point where he can get any realistic value for their production.  They’re old by NFL standards and on rental contracts who were kept to try and compete on a team that hasn’t sniffed the playoffs.  Elway should’ve realized this team couldn’t legitimately compete and been selling these guys when they could net legitimate value for their production.  

IMO, that along with the poor drafting has this team in the bind they’re currently in. 

Accidentally quoted my post...meant to edit.

Edited October 5, 2019 by germ-x

[thebestever6]

33 minutes ago, germ-x said:

This is a big part of where Elway has failed.  He’s held onto players far past the point where he can get any realistic value for their production.

That's so arbitrary though unless we see what trades that Elway turned down right? I mean my philosophy is any player is tradable in the NFL it's just are teams willing to play the price? Would Chiefs trade Pat Mahomes to the dolphins for 5 firsts and Josh Rosen possibly. 

-The only trades I can think of on record of Elway declining were the Buffalo trade down two first two seconds, for pick 5 and a 3rd. 

- Von Miller for Two firsts and a 3rd in 2016. 

Am I missing any?

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by thebestever6

[Broncofan]

54 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

That's so arbitrary though unless we see what trades that Elway turned down right? I mean my philosophy is any player is tradable in the NFL it's just are teams willing to play the price? Would Chiefs trade Pat Mahomes to the dolphins for 5 firsts and Josh Rosen possibly. 

-The only trades I can think of on record of Elway declining were the Buffalo trade down two first two seconds, for pick 5 and a 3rd. 

- Von Miller for Two firsts and a 3rd in 2016. 

Am I missing any?

 

 

Elway had a Renck/Klis-confirmed offer to trade back into late 20's and a 3rd round pick from 20 in 2017, turned it down.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

Elway had a Renck/Klis-confirmed offer to trade back into late 20's and a 3rd round pick from 20 in 2017, turned it down.

 

Oh wow, I never heard the full details of that offer. I just assumed they could of gotten it I'm enlightened.  Stuff like that you can source check it off though. 

As well as drafting. But...Veteran players what they're worth, when to trade them, assuming good offers were turned down is a tangled web. 

I remember when I was a kid and at 30 franchises treated playere like they were cows out to pasture. Now, an expiring contract a 30+ could be intriguing to title contenders. 

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

That's so arbitrary though unless we see what trades that Elway turned down right? I mean my philosophy is any player is tradable in the NFL it's just are teams willing to play the price? Would Chiefs trade Pat Mahomes to the dolphins for 5 firsts and Josh Rosen possibly. 

-The only trades I can think of on record of Elway declining were the Buffalo trade down two first two seconds, for pick 5 and a 3rd. 

- Von Miller for Two firsts and a 3rd in 2016. 

Am I missing any?

 

 

I don’t think it’s arbitrary at all as there was definitively more value in Miller, Harris, Sanders 2-3 years ago  than there is now.  We don’t need to know what offers were available to know that.  2-3 years ago there is almost no doubt all 3 of those players would have fetched more in a trade than they will now and Elway and Company chose to hold onto them thinking they could compete for the playoffs,

Hindsight is 20/20, but that’s part of the gig when being in charge of player personnel.  Elway should have maximized value 2-3 years ago instead of thinking these Broncos teams could compete (few in this forum even thought they could).  Instead he didn’t and Denver is essentially looking at scraps now for these pro bowl/all pro caliber players who are now old and on bad contracts/rentals for other teams.

[thebestever6]

8 hours ago, germ-x said:

I don’t think it’s arbitrary at all as there was definitively more value in Miller, Harris, Sanders 2-3 years ago  than there is now.  We don’t need to know what offers were available to know that.  2-3 years ago there is almost no doubt all 3 of those players would have fetched more in a trade than they will now and Elway and Company chose to hold onto them thinking they could compete for the playoffs,

Hindsight is 20/20, but that’s part of the gig when being in charge of player personnel.  Elway should have maximized value 2-3 years ago instead of thinking these Broncos teams could compete (few in this forum even thought they could).  Instead he didn’t and Denver is essentially looking at scraps now for these pro bowl/all pro caliber players who are now old and on bad contracts/rentals for other teams.

The fact that Elway traded DT at the deadline last year proves to me he's willing to sell so that's a non issue with me anyway not speaking for anyone else. I think if good offers came in for Harris and Sanders last year the trigger most likely would of been pulled.

2017 was VJ's first year as head coach. The fact that Henderson and Langley never developed (looked at as Sanders and Harris replacements potentially?) As bad as Vance Joseph was you have to give him some form of opportunity in 2017. The fact that he was making calls to move on from VJ after the year tells me if there was a very good offer at the deadline he may have moved on from the vets.

2016 they were 9-7 and had a runners high from the Superbowl run. I don't know what the thought process was this year or the value from other teams on our vets were. The fact that Elway tried to sell an entire fan base on Trevor Siemian and that oline is egregious. This year is the year he should have sold if the offers were there. We don't know what offers were there though besides Von Miller. 

I wish I knew what offers Elway turned down the past 3 years because at that point I'd have a pitchfork and mob mentality. Can we just assume he turned down good offers?

Edited October 5, 2019 by thebestever6

[thebestever6]

I don't wanna make me sound like an Elway Apologist I'm not just to be clear. I just think veteran players in general are so hard to set a evaluation on in general besides the mid year point because there is no free agency to compete with. This increases the values of rentals. Unless we have a known turned down trade assumptions aren't there to be had. 

 

[thebestever6]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2856832-nfl-trade-rumors-gms-hopeful-broncos-put-von-miller-on-the-block-in-fire-sale

I know you have to consider the source but interesting article. 

[Broncofan]

It's not as good as coming from Klis, but given how plugged in Renck is, it's good to hear this finally coming out.   Gotta say we should be big LAC fans for this week - lose the battle, win the war by selling early and NOT at the trade deadline.  Especially in Harris' case, elite cover CB's are one of the few valuable resources teams will pay up for.  Wait until ARI gets P-Pete back, and we dilute our seller's advantage (not to mention risk of CHJ injury killing any potential return).

 

[French Fan]

The more i see CHJ play this year  the more he wants out ! Lose a step not engaged in fight with his WR.

 

[jsthomp2007]

2 hours ago, French Fan said:

The more i see CHJ play this year  the more he wants out ! Lose a step not engaged in fight with his WR.

 

I see the same thing. And he is a captain. If you're a captain your supposed to raise all waters, and he is lowering them. I'm disappointed in him. He had more class. It is one thing to be at the end of your career and you want another shot at a Super Bowl, but there has to be a better way to do that than chosing to not play hard.

With that said the Duke Dawson pick seems like it's baring fruit. Hopefully Bausby's industry isn't that bad and he can comeback because he looks solid. Yiadom for what it's worth seems like a capable backup. And, when the Broncos get Callahan back, I think the defensive backfield will be just fine. 

I'd still like the Broncos to sign a true lock down next year, but the current cast looks good.

[French Fan]

59 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

I see the same thing. And he is a captain. If you're a captain your supposed to raise all waters, and he is lowering them. I'm disappointed in him. He had more class. It is one thing to be at the end of your career and you want another shot at a Super Bowl, but there has to be a better way to do that than chosing to not play hard.

With that said the Duke Dawson pick seems like it's baring fruit. Hopefully Bausby's industry isn't that bad and he can comeback because he looks solid. Yiadom for what it's worth seems like a capable backup. And, when the Broncos get Callahan back, I think the defensive backfield will be just fine. 

I'd still like the Broncos to sign a true lock down next year, but the current cast looks good.

I am agree except for Yiadom. When he replaced Bausby , Rivers attacked 2 times Yiadom and each time he was too far to defend a pass. We conceded 2 big 1st down. For me it s time to move on from him.