lomaxgrUK Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I actually think both teams lose in that Ramsey trade. Does Ramsey actually make the Rams much better? They are still the 3rd best team in their division. The Rams absolutely suck on the OL and now their best vehicle for improving that for the next two years disappears. They are going to have no money at all to fix it in Free Agency, that is for sure. It's a nice haul for the Jags, but is it value to draft a guy #5 overall then trade him after 3 1/2 seasons for a #15-20 overall pick and another #15-25 overall pick? You draft guys at #5 for them to be cornerstones of your team for years to come. I think the Jags did the best out of the situation they created for themselves, I guess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Fan Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said: I actually think both teams lose in that Ramsey trade. Does Ramsey actually make the Rams much better? They are still the 3rd best team in their division. The Rams absolutely suck on the OL and now their best vehicle for improving that for the next two years disappears. They are going to have no money at all to fix it in Free Agency, that is for sure. It's a nice haul for the Jags, but is it value to draft a guy #5 overall then trade him after 3 1/2 seasons for a #15-20 overall pick and another #15-25 overall pick? You draft guys at #5 for them to be cornerstones of your team for years to come. I think the Jags did the best out of the situation they created for themselves, I guess. Marcus Peters is gone (9m in 2019 contract end 2019) A.Talib will not be resigned or cheap contract (i dont think he will be ok) You have 2 players gone and not resigned for Ramsey and at 13m . So you lose only 1 player. You have room for another one in FA. If you stuck with Peters and Talib you have to spend more than 18m. The move is "cap save" move by the Rams to secure 1 player and go in FA for OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said: I actually think both teams lose in that Ramsey trade. Does Ramsey actually make the Rams much better? They are still the 3rd best team in their division. The Rams absolutely suck on the OL and now their best vehicle for improving that for the next two years disappears. They are going to have no money at all to fix it in Free Agency, that is for sure. It's a nice haul for the Jags, but is it value to draft a guy #5 overall then trade him after 3 1/2 seasons for a #15-20 overall pick and another #15-25 overall pick? You draft guys at #5 for them to be cornerstones of your team for years to come. I think the Jags did the best out of the situation they created for themselves, I guess. Woww did not see this from you lol. Glass half empty kinda person with this. I love what the Jags got, you're not taking the full context into consideration here or the recent events. Ramsey met with the owner to patch things up, and still missed the next game. That relationship was fractured the fact that they still got two fists, and a 4th was surprising. They can turn those picks into 6 picks if they wanted to trade down into the top of the second. And yes, no player most likely will be Ramsey but it's the cumulative effect controlling draft position, and other gains go pay the de, build through the draft and cost control. Rams got their Talib in Wades scheme wouldn't be surprised to see him cover Kittle in that division. The only way this trade fully works for them is if it ends in a superbowl trophy at some point soon 2-3 years. Ramsey will resign because it's L.A. and if he matures as a player and person it could pay dividends. I just think the Rams roster oline wise and defensively are declining at a more rapid rate than this move helps them but I get the move. Khan went from being stubborn to kinda being like Pat Bowlen was with J Cutler which I respect. Now, it's up to the Jags to hit on those picks as well as their organic ones. Love the backbone though these are not your fathers Jaguars. Edited October 16, 2019 by thebestever6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, French Fan said: Marcus Peters is gone (9m in 2019 contract end 2019) A.Talib will not be resigned or cheap contract (i dont think he will be ok) You have 2 players gone and not resigned for Ramsey and at 13m . So you lose only 1 player. You have room for another one in FA. If you stuck with Peters and Talib you have to spend more than 18m. The move is "cap save" move by the Rams to secure 1 player and go in FA for OL. Not sure I agree with this logic. Ramsey will not play next year unless he is the highest paid CB in the game. Fact. He's going to push for every cent too, because California has the highest state tax in the country I believe. I reckon his contract will be something in the region of 5 years, $85 million with $60 million guaranteed. You also have to spend money to replace Talib. They haven't got anyone on the roster good enough and they have no 1st round picks. These moves don't even come close to saving the Rams enough money to even slightly address their OL needs. They are going to have to cut far more of that roster to achieve that (or absolutely nail their 2020 draft). 45 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: Woww did not see this from you lol. Glass half empty kinda person with this. I love what the Jags got, you're not taking the full context into consideration here or the recent events. Ramsey met with the owner to patch things up, and still missed the next game. That relationship was fractured the fact that they still got two fists, and a 4th was surprising. They can turn those picks into 6 picks if they wanted to trade down into the top of the second. And yes, no player most likely will be Ramsey but it's the cumulative effect controlling draft position, and other gains go pay the de, build through the draft and cost control. Rams got their Talib in Wades scheme wouldn't be surprised to see him cover Kittle in that division. The only way this trade fully works for them is if it ends in a superbowl trophy at some point soon 2-3 years. Ramsey will resign because it's L.A. and if he matures as a player and person it could pay dividends. I just think the Rams roster oline wise and defensively are declining at a more rapid rate than this move helps them but I get the move. Khan went from being stubborn to kinda being like Pat Bowlen was with J Cutler which I respect. Now, it's up to the Jags to hit on those picks as well as their organic ones. Love the backbone though these are not your fathers Jaguars. To be fair, I did say that they made the best out of a situation they made for themselves. Is Jalen a pain in the ***? Yes. But they didn't pay him when he was playing at the very top of his position and he took it personal. As for the Rams - Ramsey is only as effective as the guy across the field from him. We in Denver know this all too well with how teams have still thrown on us since Talib left, even with CHJ on the field. Still don't like the move for either team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said: To be fair, I did say that they made the best out of a situation they made for themselves. Is Jalen a pain in the ***? Yes. But they didn't pay him when he was playing at the very top of his position and he took it personal. You're right, I guess my mind processes the first thing I read more than the last thing I read lol. I agree with you 100% with the Rams and the move. I just don't think the Jags lost at all hugeeee win and opportunity. I think Broncos fans in general have a pessimistic view on trades, and draft capital due to the misses of the Jay Cutler trade as well as Elways poor drafting 2013-2017. Hopefully, that will change very soon with this staff and elways recent drafting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Fan Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said: Not sure I agree with this logic. Ramsey will not play next year unless he is the highest paid CB in the game. Fact. He's going to push for every cent too, because California has the highest state tax in the country I believe. I reckon his contract will be something in the region of 5 years, $85 million with $60 million guaranteed. You also have to spend money to replace Talib. They haven't got anyone on the roster good enough and they have no 1st round picks. These moves don't even come close to saving the Rams enough money to even slightly address their OL needs. They are going to have to cut far more of that roster to achieve that (or absolutely nail their 2020 draft). To be fair, I did say that they made the best out of a situation they made for themselves. Is Jalen a pain in the ***? Yes. But they didn't pay him when he was playing at the very top of his position and he took it personal. As for the Rams - Ramsey is only as effective as the guy across the field from him. We in Denver know this all too well with how teams have still thrown on us since Talib left, even with CHJ on the field. Still don't like the move for either team. wherever i read , Ramsey will cost 13.5 or 14m per years not 17m or more. Talib or not Talib Rams defense is a mess (35 pts by games the last 3). Where are people who praise Wade Philipps defense ? You can sign a younger CB for less money than Peters + Talib against Ramsey + ? LA have no 1st round pick since 2016 but they were to the superbowl last January. I agree , Rams need to cut more players to make room for OL issues. Denver have problem to cover the TE not slot WR against the CB (except if you play with Yiadom). When your ILB's can cover ,the CB can take more risk to play. The Ramsey trade is a win now for LA Rams. When you concided more than 30 pts the last 3 games you need to make something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, French Fan said: wherever i read , Ramsey will cost 13.5 or 14m per years not 17m or more. Talib or not Talib Rams defense is a mess (35 pts by games the last 3). Where are people who praise Wade Philipps defense ? You can sign a younger CB for less money than Peters + Talib against Ramsey + ? LA have no 1st round pick since 2016 but they were to the superbowl last January. I agree , Rams need to cut more players to make room for OL issues. Denver have problem to cover the TE not slot WR against the CB (except if you play with Yiadom). When your ILB's can cover ,the CB can take more risk to play. The Ramsey trade is a win now for LA Rams. When you concided more than 30 pts the last 3 games you need to make something. Why would Ramsey only get $13.5/14m when Xavien Howard got 5 years, $75m? I.e an average of $15m. Ramsey could completely blow that out of the water. If anything, I think my numbers are conservative. But a young CB on the open market is going to be going for big money. We paid $7m a year for Callahan who's only ever been a slot CB. That's going to be circa $25m a year for Ramsey plus another. LA went to the Superbowl with Jared Goff on a rookie deal, $7.6m against the cap. Next year Goff carries a $36m cap hit. They are in a different world now where every $ they spend is vital. I am not denying the Rams approach to trading with draft picks hasn't been successful, but in this era, 1st round picks (that are good) at the back end of the 1st round are HUGE. You have them under control for 5 years at a very cheap rate, with the option for 2 franchise tags if you really want to. That's a total of 7 years. Denver have had plenty of problems covering WRs since Talib left. Do we not remember the abuse Roby and Yiadom received from our fanbase? I get your point that the Rams suck on Defense but I put that down to poor roster management prior to this move and I think that is the case with this move as well. A lot of this stems from the fact they gave a mid tier QB an elite contract, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Fan Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said: Why would Ramsey only get $13.5/14m when Xavien Howard got 5 years, $75m? I.e an average of $15m. Ramsey could completely blow that out of the water. If anything, I think my numbers are conservative. But a young CB on the open market is going to be going for big money. We paid $7m a year for Callahan who's only ever been a slot CB. That's going to be circa $25m a year for Ramsey plus another. LA went to the Superbowl with Jared Goff on a rookie deal, $7.6m against the cap. Next year Goff carries a $36m cap hit. They are in a different world now where every $ they spend is vital. I am not denying the Rams approach to trading with draft picks hasn't been successful, but in this era, 1st round picks (that are good) at the back end of the 1st round are HUGE. You have them under control for 5 years at a very cheap rate, with the option for 2 franchise tags if you really want to. That's a total of 7 years. Denver have had plenty of problems covering WRs since Talib left. Do we not remember the abuse Roby and Yiadom received from our fanbase? I get your point that the Rams suck on Defense but I put that down to poor roster management prior to this move and I think that is the case with this move as well. A lot of this stems from the fact they gave a mid tier QB an elite contract, to be honest. The only problem for Rams in offense is not Geoff , this is the lost of Zac Taylor to coaching Bengals. You can win with Geoff. Look we had win SB 50 with poor Manning plays. You can't control a good player for 5 years . If he is too good he will hold out for an extension. This is a modern NFL (memories when PLAN B Free Agency exist lol) Bradley Roby and Yiadom in the same sentence is too much for Bradley !! lol He makes some flash. When your LB can take the TE or The RB you can play much safer. This is the stone of defense. Rams want to win now not next year and Ramsey will be 13.7m against the cap next year. So even 2m with extension is not a problem for LA with no 1st round. Matthews and Weddle will be be cut for 11m free cap in 2020. At the age and performance this is good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Quote Denver have had plenty of problems covering WRs since Talib left. Do we not remember the abuse Roby and Yiadom received from our fanbase? Not going to jump in on the whole convo, but Roby and Yiadom should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Roby was really good until last season, and is good again in Texas. Yiadom should be mentioned in the Langley tier of CB flyers. He never gave us anything while Roby was a key cog here for years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Not going to jump in on the whole convo, but Roby and Yiadom should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Roby was really good until last season, and is good again in Texas. Yiadom should be mentioned in the Langley tier of CB flyers. He never gave us anything while Roby was a key cog here for years. I mean, that is taking my comment of out context really. As soon as he was thrusted into a starting role, Roby struggled - that was my point. I am not comparing the two players from a talent or output perspective; I am merely saying we struggled to cover WRs without Talib, even with CHJ still here. Edited October 17, 2019 by lomaxgrUK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 8:59 AM, lomaxgrUK said: Why would Ramsey only get $13.5/14m when Xavien Howard got 5 years, $75m? I.e an average of $15m. Ramsey could completely blow that out of the water. If anything, I think my numbers are conservative. But a young CB on the open market is going to be going for big money. We paid $7m a year for Callahan who's only ever been a slot CB. That's going to be circa $25m a year for Ramsey plus another. LA went to the Superbowl with Jared Goff on a rookie deal, $7.6m against the cap. Next year Goff carries a $36m cap hit. They are in a different world now where every $ they spend is vital. I am not denying the Rams approach to trading with draft picks hasn't been successful, but in this era, 1st round picks (that are good) at the back end of the 1st round are HUGE. You have them under control for 5 years at a very cheap rate, with the option for 2 franchise tags if you really want to. That's a total of 7 years. Denver have had plenty of problems covering WRs since Talib left. Do we not remember the abuse Roby and Yiadom received from our fanbase? I get your point that the Rams suck on Defense but I put that down to poor roster management prior to this move and I think that is the case with this move as well. A lot of this stems from the fact they gave a mid tier QB an elite contract, to be honest. For sure Ramsey is going to set the market. GM Snead isn't one to haggle with his stars, so I'd say 16M is coming up..with a record amount of guaranteed $. The ONLY caveat to questioning Snead - he's been able to shed bad contracts pretty neatly. I don't know how he sheds Gurley, but one expendable piece to shed - either Robert Woods or Brandin Cooks (not a bad contract, but also with Kupp there as their alpha, and Josh Reynolds as an OK-not-great-but-cheap guy, and Gerald Everett as an emerging move TE weapon, they don't need to have 2 highly-paid WR's on top of rookie-deal Kupp). That will likely create some room. The bigger issue that you touched on before IMO is their OL. I don't see a quick or easy fix, although taking a flier with a 5th on Austin Corbett is a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Robert Woods or Brandin Cooks (not a bad contract, but also with Kupp there as their alpha, and Josh Reynolds as an OK-not-great-but-cheap guy, and Gerald Everett as an emerging move TE weapon Any chance elway gets one of these guys if we move Sanders if the price is right? Or not worth it if we're sellers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: Any chance elway gets one of these guys if we move Sanders if the price is right? Or not worth it if we're sellers? Not worth it at all....very expensive (Cooks), or skill set we don't need (Woods). As a rebuilder, if it's expensive, EASY pass. We have to get sustainable talent. 2nd/3rd contract guys who are pricey do the exact opposite. This WR/RB/T (& OL in general) draft class is so loaded, we need to take advantage. I would be very disappointed if 2 of our Day 4 1-2 picks we have didn't go to OL & WR. The chance to get difference-making talent on Day 1-2 is much better than in prior years. RB is less of a priority, but it's so deep talent-wise, we should think of a Rd 4-5 dive that is ready for when Freeman is gone, and real insurance for Lindsay (nothing against Freeman, he's been good, but his play type, you use up & part ways after rookie deal, and he doesn't bring what Lindsay brings skill-wise, 2 very different play styles). A Rd 4-5 pick would get a guy normally taken on Day 2 other years. 2020 offers a real chance to overhaul our O into something dynamic and sustainable. Right now, we have 5 pieces we can count on long-term IMO (the 4th being a projection) - Sutton, Risner, Lindsay, Fant (projection there, but we're invested) and Janovich. That's it. We should be looking from Day 1-2 to get at least 2 impact guys - which normally isn't always possible without Day 1 picks. But WR/OL, the chance for Day 2 to get that, is really high. Having earlier draft position would really help though for Day 2 lol. Hope PIT keeps losing as well... Edited October 17, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Broncofan said: As a rebuilder, if it's expensive, EASY pass. We have to get sustainable talent. 2nd/3rd contract guys who are pricey do the exact opposite. I tend to lean your way with that idea. I guess I just don't know how expensive they are compared to the market. The draft is a great asset to use to get another wr. But a veteran wr to grow with Lock while that drafted wr develops seems in the realm of logic. -I guess it all depends on what we get for Sanders. - what those two players would command draft pick wise. - how much you believe in Lock to lean my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I think by next season guy like Courtland Sutton, Lindsay, Risner, Chubb, and Simmons (if re-signed) should bring the leadership needed to bring up another solid rookie class... then the Broncos should be set, especially if Lock can take over the reigns...and if he does, he should be the captain as QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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