AkronsWitness Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, germ-x said: Man, I just can’t help but think Elway’s thought process is to bring in a guy like Andy Dalton to compete with Lock or sign Mariota, Winston, Bridgewater to be the outright starter. I honestly think he’s terrified to outright lay it on the line and select a QB in the top 10 of the draft with how poorly drafted QBs have done (not that the FAs have worked any better). The other crazy part is Flacco was bad, but he’s still the best QB Denver’s had since Manning. Like it’s going to get worse. I was a fan of the Lock pick and stand behind it. I’ll take his talent in round 2 with no QB of the future all day, but I saw him in person at camp and he couldn’t complete a pass in 7 on 7. I actually understand not playing him this season because he’s that far behind mentally, he will get absolutely destroyed unless they give him the green light to run at every opportunity (which then puts him at risk of another injury). This team just got a lot worse with Flacco out. If that's true then thats more reason to trot him out there for as many games as possible now so they can rid themselves of him quicker and have more justification for making a move for a top 10 QB next year---like the Cards with Rosen/Murray. No QB goes from not being able to read a defense at all and can't complete 7 on 7 passes to becoming a long term franchise QB. All holding onto him at that point would just turn him into Lynch 2.0 and waste 2 more years of trying to find a actual QB. If the FO doesn't think he has it that much, then the smart thing to do is throw him out there to appease fans, watch him crap the bed and move on from him next year. Rip the band-aid off don't just hold onto a guy wasting even more years because of a slim chance he goes from a high school dropout to a college graduate in 1 year. Edited October 30, 2019 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I won’t lie I had a good chuckle here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 8 hours ago, The Helicopter said: We need more empty seats and quite honestly, the sellout streak to stop. The sooner Elway/Ellis go the better. Obviously, the entire coaching staff goes too - clean house. The coaching staff haven't done anything to warrant being fired - Elway hasn't exactly handed them a winning roster. In fact I would commit to the coaching staff for 4-5 years - you are going to keep tumbling if you keep changing the coaches. In my view the coaching staff have shown enough to demonstrate that they are not the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, jolly red giant said: The coaching staff haven't done anything to warrant being fired - Elway hasn't exactly handed them a winning roster. In fact I would commit to the coaching staff for 4-5 years - you are going to keep tumbling if you keep changing the coaches. In my view the coaching staff have shown enough to demonstrate that they are not the problem. I've seen enough to say they're a big part of the solution to turning this disgusting franchise around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I don't think the coaching staff is the problem, but I am far from sold on Rich at this point. He doesn't have much to work with, but he hasn't impressed me that much either. The defensive guys on the other hand are doing great considering we are not overly talented on that side of the ball either. Our under 20ppg allowed is very much a product of coaching over talent IMO. As for the QB spot, I also expect Elway to go with a retread veteran. As they say, past behavior is the best prediction for the future. There is one FA QB that wouldn't fully damper my spirits should he be signed and that is Teddy Bridgewater. I think he can be a franchise guy, albeit on the lower talent spectrum of a franchise guy. But he is smart, efficient, accurate, has pocket presence, mobile and has the personality and demeanor to both be a franchises face and rally his guys. We should have signed him in 2018. I fully expect him to get tremendous offers this summer though. He will be only 27 next season and given the lifespan of QB's, he could be starter for another 8 years for someone. So, ya, in reality given the teams Teddy will have to choose from and the state of Denver, we are more likely to be on Dalton's short list than Teddy's. If Brady retires, I wouldn't be surprised to see them aggressively target Bridgewater. He seems like such a fit in that offense. Efficient and unspectacular. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I'm not saying to fire the coaching staff, but that it's a natural way of business if the FO goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I don't think the coaching staff is the problem, but I am far from sold on Rich at this point. He doesn't have much to work with, but he hasn't impressed me that much either. I'm impressive the way the rbs are utilized in the passing game. Did Freeman or Lindsay have these targets last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I'm impressive the way the rbs are utilized in the passing game. Did Freeman or Lindsay have these targets last year? Scangs is a first time OC - half a dozen games in - with some ups and downs - but I think this is a better offence than last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Scangarelli is learning - but I think it’s fair to say that where he’s encountered trouble is in game planning and in-game adjustments. The KC game he fell into the trap of designing a transparent game plan that KC DC Spagnolo read and they called the perfect D run blitzes to stuff what should have been a great mismatch in the run game. Last week the O was similarly inept in the 2H after a decent 1H. And the stat about out 2H struggles that @Joe_is_the_best showed really highlight the learning curve that OC Scangarelli is experiencing. I like what his scheme is meant to emphasize but it’s also clear we aren’t making great half time adjustments. That’s on the OC. It’s also something that would be a lot easier to evaluate if we didn’t have a bottom 5 pass blocking unit and a statue QB that can’t get through reads quickly. But we do want to see better game plans than KC (duh) where lack of any unpredictability created the disaster game, and better in-game adjustments that lead to better 2H play. Those are fair criticisms but also will be easier to evaluate if we’d see decent pass pro and a QB that actually fits his scheme. It’s why I hope we hit LT with RD1 as there should be an overall BPA fit there and then IOL (C then move McGovern to G) Day 2. Sadly it’s either Lock or a 2021 QB don’t see a 2020 draft solution (we won’t sniff Tua <blessing IMO> or Burrow and no one else is franchise-level Rd1 worthy). Edited October 30, 2019 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeDenverGreatAgain Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, jolly red giant said: The coaching staff haven't done anything to warrant being fired - Elway hasn't exactly handed them a winning roster. In fact I would commit to the coaching staff for 4-5 years - you are going to keep tumbling if you keep changing the coaches. In my view the coaching staff have shown enough to demonstrate that they are not the problem. Losing three games in the last 30 seconds when you have the lead usually comes down to coaching. Plain and simple. Fangio has proven inept at being a head coach. He has no idea how to use timeouts, challenges, and we lost all three of those games due to poor defensive play calling allowing teams to move the ball into FG range. You can't argue otherwise. For as much **** as I give Elway- and rightfully so, this team is a few good coaching decisions from being 5-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said: Losing three games in the last 30 seconds when you have the lead usually comes down to coaching. Plain and simple. Fangio has proven inept at being a head coach. He has no idea how to use timeouts, challenges, and we lost all three of those games due to poor defensive play calling allowing teams to move the ball into FG range. You can't argue otherwise. For as much **** as I give Elway- and rightfully so, this team is a few good coaching decisions from being 5-3. This team doesn't have the roster to go anywhere in the grand scheme of things so I don't mind close loses. The Chicago game he was aggressively for the win going for 2 and he got criticized for it. The team is what their record is. I'm guessing if we were 5 and 3 right now Lock would be thrown into the fire because he gives us the best chance to win. That's the only reason I'm upset about not winning close games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Quote I'm guessing if we were 5 and 3 right now Lock would be thrown into the fire because he gives us the best chance to win There is literally zero evidence of this. Its far more likely that Lock isn't playing because he isn't ready than some tanking conspiracy. Elway is one of the most tank adverse managers in this league. Nearly every move he has made his tenure in Denver has been with immediate gratification in mind, said gratification being to win games. Elway isn't hiding Lock because he is too good and could win us games, he is hiding Lock because he isn't ready to play in the NFL. Quote Losing three games in the last 30 seconds when you have the lead usually comes down to coaching. Plain and simple. Fangio has proven inept at being a head coach. He has no idea how to use timeouts, challenges, and we lost all three of those games due to poor defensive play calling allowing teams to move the ball into FG range. You can't argue otherwise. For as much **** as I give Elway- and rightfully so, this team is a few good coaching decisions from being 5-3. The Chicago loss cant be put on the staff at all, that was BS and that clock should have been at zeros. But I generally agree that we have made some bad calls. The flip side is that game prep seems to be a lot better under this regime. They likely are not a elite group, but they are certainly better than the clown show that was the last regime. Passing on Shanny will haunt this franchise for a decade. The chances that this current staff produce at a level as the Shanny staff are near zero. Edited October 30, 2019 by BroncosFan2010 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: There is literally zero evidence of this. Its far more likely that Lock isn't playing because he isn't ready than some tanking conspiracy. Elway is one of the most tank adverse managers in this league. Nearly every move he has made his tenure in Denver has been with immediate gratification in mind, said gratification being to win games. Elway isn't hiding Lock because he is too good and could win us games, he is hiding Lock because he isn't ready to play in the NFL. Yeah, if Lock gave us the best chance to win games, he wouldn't have been put on IR-return with a 4-6 week thumb injury. Elway's clearly afraid Lock will struggle and then the uproar of a failed early QB pick will be deafening. To be fair to Elway, Lock was picked with the idea he was going to take time - but you can't pass up the opportunity to see what you have if the outcome doesn't affect your org's playoff chances (it doesn't) or long-term outlook (we're still rebuilding either way, no matter if Elway won't publicly admit it, or admit it to himself). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Quote Yeah, if Lock gave us the best chance to win games, he wouldn't have been put on IR-return with a 4-6 week thumb injury. Elway's clearly afraid Lock will struggle and then the uproar of a failed early QB pick will be deafening. This clearly is the situation. Elway is scared Lock will be horrible in a year when guys like Gardner and Allen are showing out as draft steals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: This clearly is the situation. Elway is scared Lock will be horrible in a year when guys like Gardner and Allen are showing out as draft steals. It's somewhat unfair, in that no rookie should be called a bust/failure in year 1, especially a guy who's more projection than skills & readiness. The problem is that we've been down this road enough with Elway's past failures that the fanbase, press and the rest of the league would be quick to label it as yet another Elway failure. We shouldn't really be ready to call it that until 2020 is in the books - but on the flip side, we should get as much info this year as we can as to how Lock is progressing. I am right in your corner about my concerns with Lock, but I think whether or not you are sold, you have to find out in 2019 where he's at progression-wise if the season is lost. I don't think the thought of a complete redshirt year crosses the minds of the fans, or frankly even the players & other orgs. It's so 1989's-90's. TBH I think the way Elway is handling this now is actually creating a bigger spotlight than if he had simply let Lock practice. No one would complain much if Elway just said "he's going to take a while to get into game shape, he needs to practice reps & scrimmage time before he can play, and we need to get ready for CIN". Well some would complain, but there would be a very rational line of reasoning to point to. But to keep stalling on even a commitment for PRACTICE...man, it's literally creating 10x more controversy and buzz now. SMH. Edited October 30, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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