Chris Harris Jr Trade?

[AnAngryAmerican]

18 hours ago, germ-x said:

No doubt this is true.  However, there is absolutely no doubt Elway has been holding onto guys simply because he thinks/hopes this team can compete, when it’s been pretty obvious since the SB this team isn’t anything more than capable of competing to be .500.  

Sitting on players and not getting any value on consistently poor football teams isn’t a recipe for success and is part of the reason this team is where it’s at.  

There is literally no upside to have held onto Harris these last 2 years.  Just like there is no upside in keeping Von Miller for next season.  

I don’t doubt Elway’s desire to contend as quickly as possible and that it can become a hubris. 

That being said, being smart in free agency, good in the draft and having a legit QB can help a team climb out of the basement pretty quickly. The NFL isn’t the MLB where an in-house, draft-and-develop takes 5+ years, it can happen far more quickly. Thus, if we can start drafting well and being smart in FA, trading away All-Pros at critical positions like Von and CHJ doesn’t make you a better team, long term or short term; even high (top-10) first round picks are far from guaranteed to become All-Pros, let alone mid and late round picks. 

Let’s also remember that there’s a good chance that Elway has been instructed by Ellis to build teams with the goal of winning now; the better the team does the longer he can hold onto power and wait for Brittany Bowlen to grow up. He (Ellis) also needs a contender to get those prime time and nationally-televised games to keep his corporate sponsors happy. Remember being a 9-7 to 10-6 Wild Card contender next year and from then on is preferable from Ellis’ perspective than going full rebuild with the hopes of a Super Bowl 3 years down the road. 

Lastly, the biggest mistake this current FO (Elways group since 2011) has made was hiring VJ instead of Kyle. That cost us not only those two years but made us an undesirable destination that ended up having to pick from the second-tier lot of HC candidates last winter. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by AnAngryAmerican

[AnAngryAmerican]

16 hours ago, germ-x said:

as of now the franchise is showing about as little confidence in Lock as possible.  

I think this leaves Elway with yet another year of making a big decision at QB, which is scary as he’s been awful in this area post Peyton Manning.  Do they go out and sign a middling vet to compete with Lock, similar to the Siemian/Lynch situation?  There will be some young bigger names possibly on the market (Mariota, Winston, Bridgewater) does Elway decide to make a splash there?  Or does Elway go after a top QB in this draft?

I don’t think they’re going to get rid of Flacco and I disagree that they’re showing no confidence in Lock. 

Lock was a developmental prospect who needed refinement and has high upside. That was the case when he was drafted and when he was signed and when he played in camp and the preseason. Because of the injury, he has not practiced since August. I’m wagering they don’t want to throw him out there behind a terrible OL, coached by a rookie OC and with only one real weapon (Sutton) at the skill positions. If anything regarding their handling of Lock is to be criticized it’s that they’re being overly cautious with him, not that they lack confidence. 

They’ll use the draft and FA add more talent (or try to) and I’d wager next year our QBs are Flacco, Lock and Allen/journeyman FA. 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I don’t think they’re going to get rid of Flacco and I disagree that they’re showing no confidence in Lock. 

Lock was a developmental prospect who needed refinement and has high upside. That was the case when he was drafted and when he was signed and when he played in camp and the preseason. Because of the injury, he has not practiced since August. I’m wagering they don’t want to throw him out there behind a terrible OL, coached by a rookie OC and with only one real weapon (Sutton) at the skill positions. If anything regarding their handling of Lock is to be criticized it’s that they’re being overly cautious with him, not that they lack confidence. 

They’ll use the draft and FA add more talent (or try to) and I’d wager next year our QBs are Flacco, Lock and Allen/journeyman FA. 

TBH though if a statue QB has a herniated disk we should probably not keep him regardless.  Parting ways with Flacco would be the smart move all around but now it’s justifiable for medical reasons.  Neck injuries in any position is bad but a guy like Flacco who can’t move when healthy it’s a non-starter. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

So earlier on The Fan Nikki J was talking about some stuff and she confirmed what I suspected. One, CHJ let it be known he plans to test free agency after this season no matter what. Two, Elway wanted a 2nd for CHJ. Three, they’re playing the long game with Lock and won’t either rush him back and still view him, until he proves otherwise, as the long-term QB. 

[thebestever6]

4 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Lastly, the biggest mistake this current FO (Elways group since 2011) has made was hiring VJ instead of Kyle. That cost us not only those two years but made us an undesirable destination that ended up having to pick from the second-tier lot of HC candidates last winter. 

Went I came in the day after we hired VJ and saw the photo of him and Elway shaking hands I got a sick feeling in my stomach and it hasn't fully left sense. Preferred Shanny, Mcvay , and Toub to him.

[jolly red giant]

32 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Went I came in the day after we hired VJ and saw the photo of him and Elway shaking hands I got a sick feeling in my stomach and it hasn't fully left sense. Preferred Shanny, Mcvay , and Toub to him.

I think he was bottom of everyone's list (if he was even on the list in the first place) - that hire would be justification for sacking Elway.

[jolly red giant]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

So earlier on The Fan Nikki J was talking about some stuff and she confirmed what I suspected. One, CHJ let it be known he plans to test free agency after this season no matter what. Two, Elway wanted a 2nd for CHJ. Three, they’re playing the long game with Lock and won’t either rush him back and still view him, until he proves otherwise, as the long-term QB. 

I have read that he doesn't know the playbook - if that is the case what has he been doing for the past few months

[jolly red giant]

5 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Let’s also remember that there’s a good chance that Elway has been instructed by Ellis to build teams with the goal of winning now; the better the team does the longer he can hold onto power and wait for Brittany Bowlen to grow up. He (Ellis) also needs a contender to get those prime time and nationally-televised games to keep his corporate sponsors happy. Remember being a 9-7 to 10-6 Wild Card contender next year and from then on is preferable from Ellis’ perspective than going full rebuild with the hopes of a Super Bowl 3 years down the road. 

Lastly, the biggest mistake this current FO (Elways group since 2011) has made was hiring VJ instead of Kyle. That cost us not only those two years but made us an undesirable destination that ended up having to pick from the second-tier lot of HC candidates last winter. 

This I agree with - and this was  and is now the problem.

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, jolly red giant said:

I think he was bottom of everyone's list (if he was even on the list in the first place) - that hire would be justification for sacking Elway.

If Lock doesn't show up and show out come December I'm right there with you.  His bags are being packed from the Closet as we speak.

DREW LOCK much like Tim Tebow with McDaniels is either going to save Elways job or be a gm killer. I'm still ticked about the trade deadline stuff and only Drew Lock balling out will stop that.

[1234567]

44 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Went I came in the day after we hired VJ and saw the photo of him and Elway shaking hands I got a sick feeling in my stomach and it hasn't fully left sense. Preferred Shanny, Mcvay , and Toub to him.

3 years ago Shanny took over a 2-12 49ers squad and VJ took the reigns of a 9-7 team that had just won the Super Bowl the previous year. FF to today and the 49ers are undefeated and we are 2-6. Vance Joseph will go down as one of the worst mistakes in Elway’s career. I will say though that I think Fangio has this team on the right track. Our record sucks.. BUT we are literally 3 plays away from being 5-3. If Elway is smart, he will sit down with Fangio and Munchak before the draft and ask what they need to fix the o-line. I don’t care how many picks it takes, if we don’t do ANYTHING else, we HAVE to fix that line. No Qb, whether it’s Lock or someone else could succeed behind that trash. I think that’s also the reason they are dragging their feet in activating Lock. They don’t want to destroy him right out of the gate. 

[thebestever6]

24 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

No Qb, whether it’s Lock or someone else could succeed behind that trash. I think that’s also the reason they are dragging their feet in activating Lock. They don’t want to destroy him right out of the gate. 

That will be the plan mark my words and a middle linebacker will soon follow and once we get those two issues taken care of and Fant grows we will be a playoff team. 

This team will be 9-7 battling for a wild card next year if the team maintains health.  With that said I still wanna get rid of Von if possible for assets. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

18 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

With that said I still wanna get rid of Von if possible for assets. 

I don’t understand why some portions of the fan base hold this sentiment. Again, this isn’t a video game and factors beyond draft pick value and whatnot factor in to real life decisions.

But, more importantly, the odds of us drafting a player that can replicate, or even approach, Von’s production (even this year which is far below his career mean given the team has literally no other pass rush threat for opposing DCs gameplan for) and impact is foolhardy. 

[thebestever6]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

But, more importantly, the odds of us drafting a player that can replicate, or even approach, Von’s production (even this year which is far below his career mean given the team has literally no other pass rush threat for opposing DCs gameplan for) and impact is foolhardy.

He's 30 years old so if we land a first and a 2nd or first and a third minimum you pull the trigger for two reasons.

1) if you hit on both picks their combined contributions + years are more valuable to the Broncos going forward than Von Millers.

2) If you hit on one of the two the same reasoning for number 1 applies and it gives you variability for certain picks.

It's not even about replacing a legend it's about building a team at this stage. You are looking at it as a fan who could drop dead at any moment so you don't have time for draft picks. A front office has to look at the butterfly effect and how that benefits this organization. 

How rare are DeMarcus wares and Beuce Smith's aging like wine?

Edited October 31, 2019 by thebestever6

[germ-x]

7 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I don’t understand why some portions of the fan base hold this sentiment. Again, this isn’t a video game and factors beyond draft pick value and whatnot factor in to real life decisions.

But, more importantly, the odds of us drafting a player that can replicate, or even approach, Von’s production (even this year which is far below his career mean given the team has literally no other pass rush threat for opposing DCs gameplan for) and impact is foolhardy. 

I agree it isn’t a video game and there are other factors to consider, such as acquiring cost controlled talent to help quicken getting back into contention.

I think it boils down to how quickly one thinks Denver can be legitimate contenders.  Personally, I don’t think they’re close and need to rebuild and part of rebuilding is acquiring young talent on cheap deals.  I don’t think Denver is competitive throughout the rest of Miller’s contract and because of that he should be moved if Denver is capable of acquiring a 1st+ for Miller.  Further Miller isn’t some type of exceptional leader who bleeds orange and blue, he may be the laziest player on the team.

In that sense this move isn’t “foolhardy” it’s the type of tough move good GMs make. 

[thebestever6]

22 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I think it boils down to how quickly one thinks Denver can be legitimate contenders.  Personally, I don’t think they’re close and need to rebuild and part of rebuilding is acquiring young talent on cheap deals.  I don’t think Denver is competitive throughout the rest of Miller’s contract and because of that he should be moved if Denver is capable of acquiring a 1st+ for Miller.  Further Miller isn’t some type of exceptional leader who bleeds orange and blue, he may be the laziest player on the team.

It isn't even about quickening a rebuild at this point unless you think you're a legitimate superbowl contender next year keeping Von on the roster it's just not smart. We may compete for a playoff berth next year but Von is more of a piece to cap off a championship defense which we aren't going to be that year 2 imo.