BroncoBruin Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Cashing in depreciating assets in football is just smart. A good 1st round pick outperforms Von Miller in 2020-beyond and is much cheaper. But, because of all the “not smart” (which isn’t to say they aren’t legitimate) reasons a team would value a player, Von probably plays out his contract. Edited November 1, 2019 by BroncoBruin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: Cashing in depreciating assets in football is just smart. A good 1st round pick outperforms Von Miller in 2020-beyond and is much cheaper. But, because of all the “not smart” (which isn’t to say they aren’t legitimate) reasons a team would value a player, Von probably plays out his contract. Someone said on here an offseason trade seems most likely I think it was @broncofan2010 . It makes sense especially where we are at with the rebuild and Vons age. Giants seemed like they were a year ahead of us this past year selling obj. I believe we sell von for a 2020 second and 2021 first and Elway goes for broke in the drafts with bargain bin free agents or that's my hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: Cashing in depreciating assets in football is just smart. A good 1st round pick outperforms Von Miller in 2020-beyond and is much cheaper. But, because of all the “not smart” (which isn’t to say they aren’t legitimate) reasons a team would value a player, Von probably plays out his contract. Exactly. If you’re competing it makes sense (unless you’re the Patriots who can plug and play almost anyone), but Denver isn’t. Chris Harris is a perfect example. Denver has held onto him to the point where they MAYBE get a 3rd round comp pick for him and held onto to him for the whole purpose of picking in the top 10 in back to back years. That’s just poor management. I can’t help but think the same thing happens if Denver holds onto Von. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, germ-x said: Denver has held onto him to the point where they MAYBE get a 3rd round comp pick for him and held onto to him for the whole purpose of picking in the top 10 in back to back years. That’s just poor management. I can’t help but think the same thing happens if Denver holds onto Von. You're making me angry about the Langley pick again lol stop the madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, germ-x said: I agree it isn’t a video game and there are other factors to consider, such as acquiring cost controlled talent to help quicken getting back into contention. I think it boils down to how quickly one thinks Denver can be legitimate contenders. Personally, I don’t think they’re close and need to rebuild and part of rebuilding is acquiring young talent on cheap deals. I don’t think Denver is competitive throughout the rest of Miller’s contract and because of that he should be moved if Denver is capable of acquiring a 1st+ for Miller. Further Miller isn’t some type of exceptional leader who bleeds orange and blue, he may be the laziest player on the team. In that sense this move isn’t “foolhardy” it’s the type of tough move good GMs make. I’d rather keep the assets (Von & potential draft pics) until we have a better FO. Then I’d be willing to reevaluate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, germ-x said: Exactly. If you’re competing it makes sense (unless you’re the Patriots who can plug and play almost anyone), but Denver isn’t. Chris Harris is a perfect example. Denver has held onto him to the point where they MAYBE get a 3rd round comp pick for him and held onto to him for the whole purpose of picking in the top 10 in back to back years. That’s just poor management. I can’t help but think the same thing happens if Denver holds onto Von. I still enjoy watching Von - don’t take that away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Quote I still enjoy watching Von - don’t take that away! This is important. You need to give casual fans a reason to watch the games. Moving Von will be a huge blow to marketing. Most Broncos fans don't tune in to watch Duke Dawson. This team sans Von doesn't have a single guy to put on a billboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: This is important. You need to give casual fans a reason to watch the games. Moving Von will be a huge blow to marketing. Most Broncos fans don't tune in to watch Duke Dawson. This team sans Von doesn't have a single guy to put on a billboard. Drew Lock is that guy he's going to be fun to watch for better or for worse. If you hit on Drew you'll want the extra picks from Von to recycle the defense not rebuild it. If you miss on Lock you'll want an extra pick or two to ident the next qb. It's all about team building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Quote Drew Lock is that guy he's going to be fun to watch for better or for worse. If you hit on Drew you'll want the extra picks from Von to recycle the defense not rebuild it. If you miss on Lock you'll want an extra pick or two to ident the next qb. It's all about team building. You don't make R2 QB's that have not taken a snap the face of your franchise in regards to marketing. Imagine the ridicule if Broncos PR immediately started using Paxton Lynch as the face of this franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: You don't make R2 QB's that have not taken a snap the face of your franchise in regards to marketing. Imagine the ridicule if Broncos PR immediately started using Paxton Lynch as the face of this franchise. I should of Clarified lol excellent point by week 17 Drew Lock will be that guy. Stop saying that last name lol Paxton Lynch made me lose respect for John Lynch tbh. And Raiders did it with Carr no? Edited November 1, 2019 by thebestever6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said: This is important. You need to give casual fans a reason to watch the games. Moving Von will be a huge blow to marketing. Most Broncos fans don't tune in to watch Duke Dawson. This team sans Von doesn't have a single guy to put on a billboard. It's why I think if you're going to do it, and we will need to - you do it in the offseason. You can point to the guys you just drafted - and next year, I guarantee it won't be a guy like Fant. You can also point to the guys who are going to (hopefully) take a step up to stardom. Sutton, etc. And while I don't believe in him, Lock would be front and center as the QBOTF - or the guy you draft (God, please not Herbert lol). He'd probably be part of 4-5 guys the PR campaign works around. But even the casual fanbase likely understands if we message it properly that this is a rebuild. Beyond the PR reasons, waiting until next offseason to deal Von makes sense provided the price is right. To that end, there are more teams who can make cap room and restructure - while need drives teams in a huge way for very specific positions, a guy like Von, 8-10 teams would immediately be able to make cap space AND the roster fit, provided they could get cheap FA fill-ins for other areas - but wouldn't have the same flexibility at the deadline. It's no coincidence once the most need-driven teams paid up above-market prices to get the premium young guy - the market dried up for sellers trying to sell guys at a premium. Next offseason, at least the entire list of prospective buyers could manipulate their roster & cap to try and see how Von fits - versus narrowing the market to those that can make the cap / roster shuffle work in-season (always a much harder proposition). Fundamentally, though, I think there's a greater barrier to trading Von next offseason - Elway's willingness to commit 2020 as rebuild-first. Whether it's Ellis pulling the strings behind the curtain, or Elway's DNA (or both), that remains the biggest obstacle to a full commit to a true rebuild. Which IMO is what we really need to consider. As much as Fangio has our D overachieving - focusing on our youth is what sustains success. IND's rebuild being focused on youth is the model to follow. It's also no guarantee to work with each pick / young guy, but the payoff in future sustainability and cap flexibility makes it a no-brainer. Edited November 1, 2019 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: It's why I think if you're going to do it, and we will need to - you do it in the offseason. You can point to the guys you just drafted - and next year, I guarantee it won't be a guy like Fant. You can also point to the guys who are going to (hopefully) take a step up to stardom. Sutton, etc. And while I don't believe in him, Lock would be front and center as the QBOTF - or the guy you draft (God, please not Herbert lol). He'd probably be part of 4-5 guys the PR campaign works around. But even the casual fanbase likely understands if we message it properly that this is a rebuild. On a scale from 1% to 100% what is the probability in your mind Denver either A) Trades Von or B) trades down for a haul of picks with a qb needy team in the 2020 draft what would it be? ( this offseason) Keep in mind we haven't seen Lock play or the record play out so that's already in consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan07 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Trading Von is not going to happen for a multitude of reasons so I’m not sure why it keeps getting brought up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, broncosfan07 said: Trading Von is not going to happen for a multitude of reasons so I’m not sure why it keeps getting brought up. Because for the first time in a long time some people are draft pick drunk and think you need to tear a team down to the screws to properly rebuild. Von has 4-5 good years left in him. I'm not sure I would want to trade him for a late 1st round pick and a 3rd who will most likely amount to a Bradley Roby type player and a rotational offensive linemen. Hard pass Edited November 1, 2019 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, broncosfan07 said: Trading Von is not going to happen for a multitude of reasons so I’m not sure why it keeps getting brought up. One of two things are going to happen and you can sig quote this.! Either Von gets traded, or Elway will rake a gm over the coals for two firsts and two seconds for a qb like Herbert in the draft because the draft is deep at our positions of need. At that moment in time the Drew Lock pick will never look as sweet and this fanbase will bask in the glory. And all these close loses will seem worth it. I can script out the phone call between John Robinson or Bruce Arians and if you'd like with hopefully Elway. Edited November 1, 2019 by thebestever6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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