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Player Appreciation Thread


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On 12/31/2019 at 1:10 PM, holyghost said:

Undoubtedly. Inflated by the one game is a dumb take. How many great players stats are inflated by games like that? Plenty. He was present nearly every week, and didn't even start the season playing while healing from the broken hand. A very good showing for a 4th rounder, and probably the best value pick of the entire draft based on year one production. If he got the penalty sacks back and started the season healthy with full camp, maybe he has 13 or 15 sacks. 

I totally agree.  The same thing Could be said about most leaders in sacks.  If I had to guess, I’d estimate it 1/3 of the sack leaders totals come in 2-3 games. I’d discount the total somewhat if he had 2 games of 4 sacks and ended with 10, meaning he had 14 games and 2 sacks in the rest of the season.  But that isn’t the case.  I think it’d be more fair to discount the first three weeks and say Crosby’s 10 sacks project to be a 12 sack season. And your absolutely right Crosby should have an additional 3-5 more sacks if not for horrible penalty calls wiping them out.  

I think Crosby can be a 10-15 sack a year players annually.  He’s going to get more attention next year, but he’s also going to progress as a player. 
 

Hurst has a good season IMO. It’s pretty common to see young players have a season where they have a lot of pressures and modest sacks, then the next year they start turning more of those pressures into sacks.  I can see him Getting 6-9 sacks next year.  Of course that assumes he continues to improve and we give him enough snaps on passing downs and limit his run down snaps so he doesn’t tire out.

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Hurst came out of college with first-round credentials and while he hasn’t exactly dominated, he finishes the 2019 season as the highest-graded Raiders defensive player at 72.2 overall. Don’t be fooled by sack totals, Hurst was the team’s most efficient pass-rusher, grading at 76.5 and pressuring the quarterback 38 times on only 355 rushes.

From PFF, so grain of salt and all that.

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5 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

From PFF, so grain of salt and all that.

Yes the PFF grade is taken with the grain of salt but their pressure stats are valid.

imo hurst needs to develop and convert more pressures into sacks.  He’s a league leader for interior DLmen in pressures in only year 2 and he’s trending upwards.


He had 30 pressures, 4 qb hits, and 3.5 sacks with a 10.7% pressure rate on 355 rushes.

hopefully he improves and the other pass rushers improve too.  I think he can easily be 425 snap rusher with 8 sacks and 45 pressures/qb hit (12.5% pressure rate).
that projection only has him getting +4 rushes per game and +1.7% pressure rate.  It’s a very modest estimate.  Personally I think that estimate could come from an identical level of play and a team better pass rush that reduces his high level of double teams.  We really didn’t have many sacks where the qb was taken down because he had to step up in the pocket.

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https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/08/raiders-wr-hunter-renfrow-created-elite-amount-of-separation-during-rookie-season/

According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Renfrow averaged 3.5 yards of separation on every target. Only one other receiver (Diontate Johnson) averaged more during the 2019 season. To put this into perspective even further, players such as Michael Thomas, Amari Cooper, and Stefon Diggs all averaged a full yard less of separation per target.

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3 minutes ago, true2form said:

https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/08/raiders-wr-hunter-renfrow-created-elite-amount-of-separation-during-rookie-season/

According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Renfrow averaged 3.5 yards of separation on every target. Only one other receiver (Diontate Johnson) averaged more during the 2019 season. To put this into perspective even further, players such as Michael Thomas, Amari Cooper, and Stefon Diggs all averaged a full yard less of separation per target.

He has solidified himself as our #3. Love Renfrow and he has definitely proven himself not bad for where he was taken in the draft 😎.

Now we need to draft a #1 (Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs) this draft and we will be dangerous depending on Carr if he takes a step forward or backwards. The addition of a #1 receiver will take the pressure off all the other WR/TE core. With all those weapons Carr should have no problems (being he actually makes an effort to throw to them).

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27 minutes ago, Gannon12 said:

Now we need to draft a #1 (Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs) this draft and we will be dangerous depending on Carr if he takes a step forward or backwards. The addition of a #1 receiver will take the pressure off all the other WR/TE core.

Exactly.  This will complete our offense.  If we do this and Carr doesn't get us to the playoffs then I'm all on board for replacing him.

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11 minutes ago, true2form said:

Exactly.  This will complete our offense.  If we do this and Carr doesn't get us to the playoffs then I'm all on board for replacing him.

We've already seen that Carr isn't the guy. A #1 WR isn't going to change that because he couldn't get Cooper the ball. 

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6 minutes ago, true2form said:

Exactly.  This will complete our offense.  If we do this and Carr doesn't get us to the playoffs then I'm all on board for replacing him.

I’m all for the draft one of the top flight receivers in any case be it with Carr or whoever we bring in as his replacement this offseason. I have already come to terms a long time ago that Carr will probably be here next season and if he is I would love to eat a 4 course meal of crow. I just can’t wait for for this offseason to unfold it’s going to be an exciting one. New city, new stadium, draft guru GM. It’s looking optimal 

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Just now, NYRaider said:

We've already seen that Carr isn't the guy. A #1 WR isn't going to change that because he couldn't get Cooper the ball. 

I'm not getting into this again with you.  You think Carr is the problem with 17-18' and I think Coop couldn't be a #1 without another 1,000 yard WR opposite him in 17-18'.  

Agree to disagree.

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2 minutes ago, true2form said:

I'm not getting into this again with you.  You think Carr is the problem with 17-18' and I think Coop couldn't be a #1 without another 1,000 yard WR opposite him in 17-18'.  

Agree to disagree.

Cooper had 1,000+ yards in 2018 despite not having a 1,000+ WR opposite of him. Hell 2/4 years he put up 1,000+ yards he didn't have a 1,000+ yard WR opposite of him... 

But I guess it's just a coincidence that Cooper was a baller with pre-injury Carr, sucked with post injury Carr, and then started to produce at a borderline elite level as soon as he got away from post injury Carr. Yup, it's all because he got to play with Michael Gallup. 

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2 minutes ago, Gannon12 said:

I’m all for the draft one of the top flight receivers in any case be it with Carr or whoever we bring in as his replacement this offseason. I have already come to terms a long time ago that Carr will probably be here next season and if he is I would love to eat a 4 course meal of crow. I just can’t wait for for this offseason to unfold it’s going to be an exciting one. New city, new stadium, draft guru GM. It’s looking optimal 

Yes it should definitely be exciting to say the least.  

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4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

We've already seen that Carr isn't the guy. A #1 WR isn't going to change that because he couldn't get Cooper the ball. 

Cooper isn't a bonafide #1 WR at this point in his career. Dude couldn't produce away from Dallas' indoor stadium and disappeared in games that mattered. Let's not forget the drops. If Dallas pays him 18-20 million, it'll be a comical waste of money.

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1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Cooper isn't a bonafide #1 WR at this point in his career. Dude couldn't produce away from Dallas' indoor stadium and disappeared in games that mattered. Let's not forget the drops. If Dallas pays him 18-20 million, it'll be a comical waste of money.

Same can be said that Carr is not a true starting QB because he can not win in cold weather. If you would have watched Cooper this year you would be able to tell he was hurt and no one is saying he is a top 3 WR.  He is a top 10 WR and was almost non existent with Carr.  If it is comical to give Cooper $15+ million then it is comical for Carr to be making what he does.  They would both be making top ten money.  I do not think Cooper is getting $18+ million.

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3
 
 
 
 
3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Same can be said that Carr is not a true starting QB because he can not win in cold weather. If you would have watched Cooper this year you would be able to tell he was hurt and no one is saying he is a top 3 WR.  He is a top 10 WR and was almost non existent with Carr.  If it is comical to give Cooper $15+ million then it is comical for Carr to be making what he does.  They would both be making top ten money.  I do not think Cooper is getting $18+ million.

I didn't mention Carr here. We have 300 pages for that. He's not a top 10 WR at this point IMO. There are tons of guys I'd take over him. Wait until Lamb and Jeudy get in the league. That number will continue to grow.

I've watched Cooper this year. The talent is still there. What separates him from being a WR who a team can consistently rely on, especially in the postseason, still isn't there.

Based on the free agent market, he'll easily hit 18 million. An 18 million I'd rather spend elsewhere.

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@MrOaktown_56 it will not let me quote you but we can agree to disagree then.   There are not ten WRs you can consistently rely on in the league to perform at a top level.  Last year in Dallas and the beginning of this year is a more accurate representation of who he is.  The second half of the year he had multiple lower body injuries that limited him.  Statistically he was a top 3 WR before the injuries this year.  Even with being hurt and the collapse of Dallas he was still 8th in yards, 9th in TDs, and 21st in targets.  Per target there are not many WRs that compare to him.  He is not worth $18-20 million but no WR is to me.  Like I have stated before he is similar to Moss.  He will disappear for some games, be solid a lot of games, and then win you some games.  To make him disappear you have to game plan for him in Dallas.  In Oakland Carr would take him out of the game on his own.  

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