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On 7/12/2020 at 2:32 AM, drfrey13 said:

And we missed Tunsil by one spot.  I remember getting so excited when Miami was on the clock thinking the Dolphins could draft anyone except for him and RM would have another great draft.  Then we could have had Henry or Thomas in the 2nd.  Nope.  We got Joseph and Ward.  I would have been happy drafting both players but in the 2nd and 5th rounds respectively.

What a horrible draft... I knew it when it happened.... I wanted Tunsil so bad too!  But I’m very happy with Kolton Miller (and Trent Brown) now.

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2 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

What a horrible draft... I knew it when it happened.... I wanted Tunsil so bad too!  But I’m very happy with Kolton Miller (and Trent Brown) now.

With his current trajectory Miller has been one of the most criticized players, by me, we have drafted in a while and I am happy to say I appear to be wrong.  Kid looks like a borderline pro bowl level LT for the next ten years.  If his career does not get derailed he deserves no criticism and has lived up to his draft selection.

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3 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

With his current trajectory Miller has been one of the most criticized players, by me, we have drafted in a while and I am happy to say I appear to be wrong.  Kid looks like a borderline pro bowl level LT for the next ten years.  If his career does not get derailed he deserves no criticism and has lived up to his draft selection.

Yeah, exactly.... this is Cable’s saving grace imo.... he’s really developed him nicely.  I do feel Miller took too much criticism his rookie year.... being an rookie LT, especially one who bounced around LT+RT in college and wasn’t a typical refined SEC type player, is hard enough but adding playing through a leg injury is just crazy.  His first 4(?) games he was great then he got hurt and gave up all those sacks before healing  a bit and then finished the year strong.

Last year he was much much better.... added strength... like 15-20 lbs.... his sack numbers are a little high and he’s still susceptible to the inside move or overextending at times.... but he’s really shown he’s on the right path.  He just needs to be more consistent but that comes with time for most players.  I will say that it’s hard to be a ProBowl LT and I really don’t care too much about that “award”... it often takes players the year after they deserve it to finally get the votes.... 

In 2019 he was credited with 5 sacks and 27 OTHER pressures (2 QB hits, 24 hurries plus the 5 sacks) plus 3 penalties (2 holding, 1 false start)... although some stat sites list his sacks at 8.

I think he can drop the sacks down to 5-6 (we play in a tough division for LTs) and the pressures to 25 total.

I definitely feel secure with him starting at LT and think he will be a real stud for us for the next 10+ years.  We should really consider extending him early....his contract runs thru 2021 and then we have a 5th year option.... so before the ‘22 season we should look to extend him.

 

btw what happened to Kelechi Osemele? I’m familiar with his injury and the Jets situation.... I mean I figured he’d at least get a near minimum contract from someone.  Maybe he isn’t healthy still and might never return.

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1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said:

btw what happened to Kelechi Osemele? I’m familiar with his injury and the Jets situation.... I mean I figured he’d at least get a near minimum contract from someone.  Maybe he isn’t healthy still and might never return.

I stopped paying attention to him once he was traded but I did like him on this line.  His play really fell off after he left from what I have heard.

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2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I stopped paying attention to him once he was traded but I did like him on this line.  His play really fell off after he left from what I have heard.

My memory is shot... but didn’t he kind of talk ****e about us after he was traded? I remember seeing a YouTube video where he talked about how Cable came to him prior to the 2018 draft and said he wanted to take Quentin Nelson is he was available at 10 and play him at LG while moving Osemele to RT (OL: Penn, Nelson, Hudson, Jackson, Osemele).  He said Gruden was two faced (now this is what I believe he said off a fuzzy memory) but he respected Cable’s honesty.

The guy built his game up pretty good then slacked off plus got hurt.  His 2018 season was a major letdown.  He gave up 6 sacks in 11 games and really didn’t help Miller out, as he was susceptible to inside moves much more back then.  I was done with him as a fan when I heard that interview.... we paid him very very well and he seemed to have zero loyalty or good will towards us.

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2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I stopped paying attention to him once he was traded but I did like him on this line.  His play really fell off after he left from what I have heard.

I kinda said this in the last post but his play fell of majorly back in ‘18 and was the reason he was traded.  He no longer played like someone worth 10M+ per year. 6 sacks in 11 games in ‘18. 

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6 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yeah, exactly.... this is Cable’s saving grace imo.... he’s really developed him nicely.  I do feel Miller took too much criticism his rookie year.... being an rookie LT, especially one who bounced around LT+RT in college and wasn’t a typical refined SEC type player, is hard enough but adding playing through a leg injury is just crazy.  His first 4(?) games he was great then he got hurt and gave up all those sacks before healing  a bit and then finished the year strong.

Last year he was much much better.... added strength... like 15-20 lbs.... his sack numbers are a little high and he’s still susceptible to the inside move or overextending at times.... but he’s really shown he’s on the right path.  He just needs to be more consistent but that comes with time for most players.  I will say that it’s hard to be a ProBowl LT and I really don’t care too much about that “award”... it often takes players the year after they deserve it to finally get the votes.... 

In 2019 he was credited with 5 sacks and 27 OTHER pressures (2 QB hits, 24 hurries plus the 5 sacks) plus 3 penalties (2 holding, 1 false start)... although some stat sites list his sacks at 8.

I think he can drop the sacks down to 5-6 (we play in a tough division for LTs) and the pressures to 25 total.

I definitely feel secure with him starting at LT and think he will be a real stud for us for the next 10+ years.  We should really consider extending him early....his contract runs thru 2021 and then we have a 5th year option.... so before the ‘22 season we should look to extend him.

 

btw what happened to Kelechi Osemele? I’m familiar with his injury and the Jets situation.... I mean I figured he’d at least get a near minimum contract from someone.  Maybe he isn’t healthy still and might never return.

Kolton Miller might be our most underrated player. Only raider fans know who he is, I never even heard him talk. 
 

KO was once a all pro go who just seem like he gave up after getting paid. I think we paid him a record deal at the time. He was one of better players during the 12-4 team, and seemed like he didn’t buy into Gruden. He gave up that first Gruden year, and was a jag on jets. He was injured and probably didn’t Grind to bounce back. I still follow on Instagram, seems like he is enjoying life outside of football. Went from all pro to out of the league fast. 

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1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

Kolton Miller might be our most underrated player. Only raider fans know who he is, I never even heard him talk. 
 

KO was once a all pro go who just seem like he gave up after getting paid. I think we paid him a record deal at the time. He was one of better players during the 12-4 team, and seemed like he didn’t buy into Gruden. He gave up that first Gruden year, and was a jag on jets. He was injured and probably didn’t Grind to bounce back. I still follow on Instagram, seems like he is enjoying life outside of football. Went from all pro to out of the league fast. 

Spot on.... 

He did have 2 good years before he quit on us.  Perfect example of why you gotta purge players who don’t buy into the coaches / “corporate culture”, as well as the coaching scheme.  He seemed like he would have been a malcontent under Gruden going forward.  Absolutely can’t have someone undermining the coach, no matter how talented.  It corrupts and spreads like cancer.  A locker room is like a company: you have to stomp out the bad seeds fast otherwise it creates a very poor and counterintuitive to the production and goals.  I worked at a job once where gossip and rumors were rampant and it made working there a miserable and unproductive place.  A few unhappy employees (who may have had some legitimate gripes) would spread the unhappiness through gossip and would amp up other workers to go against the boss.... soon everyone had gripes.... it killed production and efficiency until the owner came in and instituted a zero gossip policy.  
My point being.... I want guys like Abram who will run thru a brick wall for Gruden and we absolutely don’t need Osemele sitting back and making snide remarks left and to undermine him.... maybe the first few comments don’t work but soon enough if you keep hearing things it starts to creep into your mind and create doubt and unhappiness.  Can’t have that at all!  Plus, Incognito proved to be a real upgrade   (Versus the average of Osemele’s years here) and that’s saying something because I’m ‘16 Osemele might have been the best G in the league that one year.

Plus, Incognito bought into Gruden and the culture and he’s such a bad MOFO and a very professional player in regards to his work ethic.... not the funeral parlor, Arsenal if Guns in the trunk, demanding they pickle his dead head and give it to him.... lmao he’s really a likeable guy in spite of his shenanigans.  I think he’s a big help to Kolton Miller’s development.  And he brings that old Raider “we’re going to smash the Defense every play thru the whistle, half way back to the huddle” mentality.  That mentality is the contagiousness we need.

 

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On 7/19/2020 at 4:45 AM, jimkelly02 said:

I kinda said this in the last post but his play fell of majorly back in ‘18 and was the reason he was traded.  He no longer played like someone worth 10M+ per year. 6 sacks in 11 games in ‘18. 

Not saying his play was good or the coaches made him do it but his play really fell of when he started losing weight.  I remember him being sub 300 lbs.  I could be wrong on the timeline though.

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23 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Not saying his play was good or the coaches made him do it but his play really fell of when he started losing weight.  I remember him being sub 300 lbs.  I could be wrong on the timeline though.

Yeah that happened when we went to ZBS..... it was a bad idea from the start. Guys like him are all about power.  He’d never be a small agile guard.  I think it was us hedging our bets, telling him to drop weight in case we kept him....cuz u I don’t believe he ever played at that weight.  

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On 19/07/2020 at 5:49 PM, jimkelly02 said:

Spot on.... 

He did have 2 good years before he quit on us.  Perfect example of why you gotta purge players who don’t buy into the coaches / “corporate culture”, as well as the coaching scheme.  He seemed like he would have been a malcontent under Gruden going forward.  Absolutely can’t have someone undermining the coach, no matter how talented.  It corrupts and spreads like cancer.  A locker room is like a company: you have to stomp out the bad seeds fast otherwise it creates a very poor and counterintuitive to the production and goals.  I worked at a job once where gossip and rumors were rampant and it made working there a miserable and unproductive place.  A few unhappy employees (who may have had some legitimate gripes) would spread the unhappiness through gossip and would amp up other workers to go against the boss.... soon everyone had gripes.... it killed production and efficiency until the owner came in and instituted a zero gossip policy.  
My point being.... I want guys like Abram who will run thru a brick wall for Gruden and we absolutely don’t need Osemele sitting back and making snide remarks left and to undermine him.... maybe the first few comments don’t work but soon enough if you keep hearing things it starts to creep into your mind and create doubt and unhappiness.  Can’t have that at all!  Plus, Incognito proved to be a real upgrade   (Versus the average of Osemele’s years here) and that’s saying something because I’m ‘16 Osemele might have been the best G in the league that one year.

Plus, Incognito bought into Gruden and the culture and he’s such a bad MOFO and a very professional player in regards to his work ethic.... not the funeral parlor, Arsenal if Guns in the trunk, demanding they pickle his dead head and give it to him.... lmao he’s really a likeable guy in spite of his shenanigans.  I think he’s a big help to Kolton Miller’s development.  And he brings that old Raider “we’re going to smash the Defense every play thru the whistle, half way back to the huddle” mentality.  That mentality is the contagiousness we need.

 

Totally agree on Incognito, for all his 'reputation' he has been very professional, committed and seems to have really been a help to Miller on his outside. Really, really good signing considering most were pretty nervous about it. Sometimes you need that old fashioned grit and toughness in there and that probably rubbed off on Miller. I think its a good environment that we've created for him so it's a two way street.

Osemele's fall from grace fast fast and steep, I think the Jets mishandled his injury (as you'd expect) but to go from All Pro to out the league was unexpected. For once, we got rid of him at the right time instead of hanging on too long, underrated skill that teams like the Pats are masters of.  

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19 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Totally agree on Incognito, for all his 'reputation' he has been very professional, committed and seems to have really been a help to Miller on his outside. Really, really good signing considering most were pretty nervous about it. Sometimes you need that old fashioned grit and toughness in there and that probably rubbed off on Miller. I think its a good environment that we've created for him so it's a two way street.

Osemele's fall from grace fast fast and steep, I think the Jets mishandled his injury (as you'd expect) but to go from All Pro to out the league was unexpected. For once, we got rid of him at the right time instead of hanging on too long, underrated skill that teams like the Pats are masters of.  

I was okay with just bringing in one crazy player but we signed him, Burfict, and AB in the same off season.  We were sitting on a powder keg at a fireworks show.  AB proved to be crazy, Burfict got treated like he was, and Incognito lived up to his contract after being suspended the first 2 games.  Could you imagine the locker room with those 3 together during a losing streak.

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I was okay with just bringing in one crazy player but we signed him, Burfict, and AB in the same off season.  We were sitting on a powder keg at a fireworks show.  AB proved to be crazy, Burfict got treated like he was, and Incognito lived up to his contract after being suspended the first 2 games.  Could you imagine the locker room with those 3 together during a losing streak.

Yeh, that was asking a lot. To be fair, Burfict as far as I know was never a problem off the field for the Bengals but it was in hindsight just a matter of time before he got suspended. Shame as it looked like he had plenty in the tank and made our defence better. I guess it was just a case of stacking risks, making it almost certain one if them would blow up. Brown was just such a let down, at least the other two were committed and professional and were genuine but Brown appears to just be a train wreck of narcissism. I just have no respect for people like that.

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, that was asking a lot. To be fair, Burfict as far as I know was never a problem off the field for the Bengals but it was in hindsight just a matter of time before he got suspended. Shame as it looked like he had plenty in the tank and made our defence better. I guess it was just a case of stacking risks, making it almost certain one if them would blow up. Brown was just such a let down, at least the other two were committed and professional and were genuine but Brown appears to just be a train wreck of narcissism. I just gave no respect for people like that.

Just to Reply to what @Darbsk and @drfrey13 said:

In retrospect it’s crazy how we added Incognito, AB, and Burfict all in the off-season where “character” was the mission statement of the team.... that’s a crazy thought, looking back on it.

But jokes aside.... I really find it no surprise   how they all turned out, 3 widely differing results.  Incognito always struck me as a very good guy, deep down.  Maybe he just appeals to me (I love guys like him) but to me he’s a blue collar, 1950s America type of guy and a “what you see is what to get kinda guy”, not to mention I think he really matured into a “man” throughout his career.  The bullying scandal i feel was him just trying to toughen Martin up...maybe he handled it wrong but I don’t think he was trying being mean spirited.  I think Martin was just ran to the media and league office and it got blown outta proportion.  My theory is the OL coach and/or HC sanctioned or initiated Incognito to “try and toughen the guy up” and Incognito did.  When ****e hit the fan he just fell on the sword for his fellow players and coaches, he’s the type of guy that would never rat.  He knew incriminating other players and the coaches wouldn’t save him and he wouldn’t hurt men he respected.  He knew he was the “bad guy already” and took it in the chin.  The coaches league wide talk and they all knew the truth and that’s why he’s always been able to find work.  He sat out the one year and let the situation blow over then Buffalo signed him.  When Mayock did his background work into Incongito he said his past coaches loved him.  The whole mental illness thing is just like diabetes to me: it’s your responsibility to monitor and treat before it gets out of control, but if things no bad it’s more important about how you rebound from it.  And Ritchie rebounded from it and has to always monitor it; it’s always a concern much like someone with addiction, but it doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy.  I’ve always found people like him are the nicest, most honorable people there are.  Probably because they’ve been thru he’ll and back and understand and want to help because either someone helped them or they know what difference help would have made to them.  Incognito never concerned me “In the locker room”, he’s a natural leader and very likeable.
 

Burflict was always a good locker room guy and even a leader.  Very high IQ player. But it was obvious he had a “killer” mindset and you can’t turn that off.  I think even now if we brought him back it’d be hard, even knowing that the next just questionable hit would absolutely positively be the end of his career, to not get a roughing calling.  I can’t quantify it into words, but when I watch that last hit’s replay in slow-motion I understand his mindset.  He’s just a killer.  You can’t turn that off.  To be honest, we had to know that was going to happen.  It was really just a question of if he’d be in that split second situation.  He could go 2 years and not be in one.  It’s just unfortunate he didn’t last because he still had 2-3 seasons in him.

AB has always been a punk and prolly always will be.  He’s a low character person that made a lot of money and it only intensified his problem.  I have so little care for his existence I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire.  What kind of person, with millions of dollars, Assaults and robs a hard working man who he hired to do a job that was complete yet didn’t pay?  I’ll just leave it at that.  I was surprised AB had the plan to come here, get paid and purposefully get fired, collect millions, then sign with a team he wanted to be on.  Honestly, I didn’t think he had that much intelligence to Try and pull off.... to bad Mayock caught on and prevented it.  I thought he’d just come here and probably cause issues constantly, give us 2 seasons, and get traded away For a 7th rounder.

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