Off Topic: The DC Defenders/XFL Thread

[naptownskinsfan]

This really sucks, especially since it seems that Vince finally got a decent product out there after a couple years of working on this- and transitioning the WWE business to operate without him from time to time.  I'm hoping that there are some folks who want to invest into this product (it proved in it's short time it would be worth it in my opinion) and that would lessen the burden that Vince has to shoulder from a cost perspective.  

 

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

This really sucks, especially since it seems that Vince finally got a decent product out there after a couple years of working on this- and transitioning the WWE business to operate without him from time to time.  I'm hoping that there are some folks who want to invest into this product (it proved in it's short time it would be worth it in my opinion) and that would lessen the burden that Vince has to shoulder from a cost perspective.  

 

The NFL really should’ve saw the value in a NFL minor league between the AAF & XFL in the last two years. They should be investing in it like the NBA finally did with the GLeague. It won’t compete with college football - college sports are a brand that won’t ever be messed with - they need to just still make sure that any player still has to be three years removed from HS football to play and it gives guys we know who just barely missed NFL practice squads or are trying to work their way back into the NFL after a year or two our of the NFL a chance to prove they still got it. I think I heard 14 guys so far have been signed from the league to NFL teams and that will probably increase when injuries happen during preseason and the regular season this year.

Edited April 11, 2020 by turtle28

[Woz]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:55 AM, turtle28 said:

The NFL really should’ve saw the value in a NFL minor league between the AAF & XFL in the last two years. They should be investing in it like the NBA finally did with the GLeague. It won’t compete with college football - college sports are a brand that won’t ever be messed with - they need to just still make sure that any player still has to be three years removed from HS football to play and it gives guys we know who just barely missed NFL practice squads or are trying to work their way back into the NFL after a year or two our of the NFL a chance to prove they still got it. I think I heard 14 guys so far have been signed from the league to NFL teams and that will probably increase when injuries happen during preseason and the regular season this year.

If you were the owners, why would you pay anything for a "new" minor league (one that would assuredly lose money) when you have the NCAA that provides you high level training and evaluation of talent for you for free? Why would you take on the added expense of renting stadiums (you aren't building one for a minor league), liability, etc. just to get some people at the bottom of the roster?

You mention that 14 players were signed off of the XFL rosters (that number hasn't seemed to have changed in the past two weeks so let's stick with it). There were eight teams of 52 players (*), which means there were 416 XFL players. In other words, 3.4% of the XFL players made the jump.

Of course, one of those players was a long snapper (Nick Moore (Tampa Bay Vipers -> Baltimore Ravens)) and a second was a LB/LS split (Christian Kuntz (Houston Roughnecks -> Pittsburgh Steelers)). Other sites have Kuntz as a long snapper. So two of the fourteen were specialists.

Oh, and most of the guys who made the jump started in the NFL, but didn't make it and this was a second chance. Donald Parham, for instance, was a Washington player (and one we had said needed a chance) ... well, he got it with the Dallas Renegades and now is on the LA Chargers roster. It's too bad they didn't hang on to him given where the roster is now with regards to tight ends, but them's the breaks when you have to make roster cuts.

 

So again, if you were one of the 32 owners, why does the conversion of less than 5% of eligible players from this upstart league mean you should create your own? If you want a 20-1 longshot, you already have the later rounds of the draft plus UDFAs. Those players will be the same price or cheaper (if any of the "minor leaguers" have accrued eligibility) and less wear on their treads.

Is this incredibly cold and calculating? Absolutely. But that's how teams operate. Unless a Jordan Ta'amu or Tyree Kinnel becomes some breakout super star, the NFL isn't going to give a single thought to creating a minor league. Keep in mind, they did this for nearly two decades with the WLAF/NFL Europe/NFL Europa back in the 00s and it barely panned out for them talent-wise. What did they get for it?

https://www.growthofagame.com/2014/11/top-10-most-famous-nfl-europe-players/
http://www.worldleagueofamericanfootball.com/id214.html

Obviously, the most famous is Kurt Warner. I didn't know that James Harrison came out of the WLAF/NFLE. But when the "most notable" players include guys like William "Refrigerator" Perry (playing after his NFL career was already over) and Danny Wuerffel, there wasn't much there. Still (guys after the | character I have never heard of):

• QBs: Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, Jon Kitna, Jake Delhomme, Kelly Holcomb, Doug Pederson (also coaching), Scott Mitchell, Jason Garrett (coaching) Danny Wuerffel, Babe Laudenberg | Stan Gelbaugh, Dave Archer
• OLs: Doug Marrone (undistinguished as player; only listed because he is a coach)
• RBs: Aaron Stecker
• LBs: James Harrison, Tracy Simien
• Returner: Dante Hall
• Ks/Ps: Adam Vinatieri, David Akers, Chris Mohr | Darren Bennett, Gavin Hastings
• "players claimed who were in the NFL before": William Perry (DL), Lawrence Phillips (RB)
• Famous in other ways: Bill Goldberg (WWE), Terry Crews (actor), Isaiah Mustafa (Old Spice commercial guy)

 

So, the league managed to create one more NFL talented player a position other than QB or specialist than actor in nearly twenty years. An odd caveat, yes? Well, QBs and specialists are the two areas where a minor league could benefit talent development. As @Thaiphoon has argued in the past, there should be a "developmental quarterback" spot on team rosters for this particular reason. As for specialists, there's only effectively 3 (maybe 4 if the returner is Dante Hall level caliber) spots per team for specialists and there's a ton of players sitting on the street.

But for the regular positions? There's no benefit. Well, I could argue that offensive linemen would benefit, but that's more due to a dropoff in quality technique league wide due to the NCAA switching more Air Raid style offenses.

 

 

(*) There also was a "Team 9" (the league wide practice squad), but I'm going to be nice and not include them in the analysis because if you aren't good enough to make a regular season roster for the XFL, you probably aren't good enough for the NFL.

[naptownskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

 

But for the regular positions? There's no benefit. Well, I could argue that offensive linemen would benefit, but that's more due to a dropoff in quality technique league wide due to the NCAA switching more Air Raid style offenses

Great post as always.  Except for the last post.  You bring up a great point with the Air Raid style offenses.  How many other gimmicky offenses are used like the triple-option in college?  What about crazy defensive fronts that will never be seen in the NFL?  It would be a benefit to get some of these guys a season of sorts and off-season to get adjusted to NFL offensive and defensive systems, as well as adjusted to new practice and conditioning schedules. 

Another point would be designating draft picks after a certain round could go to the development league for a year.  That would also extend the average lifespan of an NFL player as well, something the NFLPA would likely be for.  

Long-term, I think you see more than 3.4% of players graduate to the NFL from a development system.  

But is it enough to counteract all of the other points mentioned?  Probably not.  

[Woz]

3 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

6 hours ago, Woz said:

But for the regular positions? There's no benefit. Well, I could argue that offensive linemen would benefit, but that's more due to a dropoff in quality technique league wide due to the NCAA switching more Air Raid style offenses

Great post as always.  Except for the last post.  You bring up a great point with the Air Raid style offenses.  How many other gimmicky offenses are used like the triple-option in college?  What about crazy defensive fronts that will never be seen in the NFL?  It would be a benefit to get some of these guys a season of sorts and off-season to get adjusted to NFL offensive and defensive systems, as well as adjusted to new practice and conditioning schedules. 

I had left out triple option offenses (how many are left in college these days?), but yes they have the same problem in not training pass blocking technique. I mentioned Air Raid offenses because those systems are going down to the high school level, which is further diluting the technique pool going forward.

I'm not sure what crazy defensive fronts exist in college that are changing the face of the game and how it's coached.

I do agree it would benefit those players to get some seasoning under their belt, but:

1. The players don't want to undergo a "redshirt" learning system year where they take on a ton of injury risk for a smaller contract up front payment.
2. The teams don't want to pay for a "redshirt" learning system year when they are talking about millions of dollars and losing 20-25% of their rookie, cost-controlled contract.

3 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Another point would be designating draft picks after a certain round could go to the development league for a year.  That would also extend the average lifespan of an NFL player as well, something the NFLPA would likely be for.  

Would they? Do they want to create a space for more members to paid way below the league average for their positions?

3 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Long-term, I think you see more than 3.4% of players graduate to the NFL from a development system.  

How long? How many millions of dollars are going to be thrown at this system to say get a return of 15-20%?