Jump to content

Week #5 Steelers 1-3 vs. Ravens 2-2 Gamethread


Steeler Hitman

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Danand said:

 "lets just see how it goes and try to win as much as possible"

 

I'm in this camp. just win enough, so that minka trade looks even better(already like what he's done for our defense) and see some of our young guys progress..I'm fine seeing them win 6-7 games and playing spoiler late in the season. I'm looking at this season as a building block.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm generally just always an optimist when it comes to the Steelers winning.... I still think we can take the division. We knew coming into this season, even fully healthy, 3-3 or potentially worse was possible before the bye. The Pats, Seahawks, and Ravens are always good teams. The 49ers are much, much improved and have excellent coaches. The Chargers are up and down, but you cant count Rivers out of anything. I think the Bengals was the only game you look at early and go, yup thats a win. 

Losing Ben changes a lot, but after the bye I see almost 10 winnable games. The Dolphins, Jets, Cardinals, are Bengals are really winnable regardless. The Browns and Ravens I put on more even footing at this point. And then the Colts, Bills, and Rams are nothing to scoff at by any means, but they are all showing tremendous flaws.

We need to go 1-1 before the bye (2-4), we need to beat the bad teams (6-4). We need to split the Browns (7-5), we need to split the remaining top 4 (9-7). That's a shot at the playoffs and  a shot at the division. Obviously not saying 9-7 does it, but I think that's the range we need to look at to be successful, and I think its do-able based on a quarter of the season. Steal a game here and there, like the Rams at home which I generally look at as a loss, 10 wins. Pull a Tomlin and lose to a team we shouldnt, forget it. 

We dont need to be perfect, but we need to just take care of what we can actually take care of for once. 

I think a non-losing season is very attainable if the defense continues to improve with guys like Minkah and Bush getting more comfortable, and someone like Edmunds taking a step forward. But at the end of the day, I am using this season to judge coaching. If we fail to reach 8 wins -- which, i'm saying it again, I think is super attainable -- I hope we look at coaching turnover (Butler, maybe Fichtner - though Ben is going to have to be onboard unfortunately). Its also a great opportunity to judge Mason and see if we have a future or a draft asset. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our defense actually has the speed to matchup with the Ravens if Butler can put together a good gameplan.

I'm hoping that we can open the playbook a little more on offense. The offense and defense both should improve throughout the year though.

I'll be curious to see, when Vance is healthy, whether they will use a lot of 2TE sets to make Mason a little more comfortable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know everyone is scared of this offense not going down the field, but give Mason a couple games to not have everything looking like a blur in front of him. I thought he looked extremely comfortable in the pocket and moving through his progressions -- he just moved too quickly at times. Mentioned it in the gameday thread but if he holds his look on JuJu crossing the field instead of dumping down to Connor (I think?) he had a 15-20 yard completion and JuJu 1 on 1 with a safety to beat for the score. That stuff comes with more high speed reps and more confidence. As soon as he gets more comfortable acknowledging what he is seeing, he will hang through that and get the ball down the field. 

The thing I like about Mason the most....he is the anti Landry Jones. When he sees something, he puts it on the receiver. Jones always looked like he was scared to actually let go of the ball. He could make the read, but just looked like as he was winding up he was second guessing and never confidently threw the ball. Mason doesnt seem to have that problem. He makes his read and throws with confidence. I like that, a lot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I know everyone is scared of this offense not going down the field, but give Mason a couple games to not have everything looking like a blur in front of him. I thought he looked extremely comfortable in the pocket and moving through his progressions -- he just moved too quickly at times. Mentioned it in the gameday thread but if he holds his look on JuJu crossing the field instead of dumping down to Connor (I think?) he had a 15-20 yard completion and JuJu 1 on 1 with a safety to beat for the score. That stuff comes with more high speed reps and more confidence. As soon as he gets more comfortable acknowledging what he is seeing, he will hang through that and get the ball down the field. 

I believe that Mason as a much higher ceiling than Landry Jones does. However, I am probably in the minority with this thinking, but I believe that Landry would have been a better back-up for this team last year and short term this year. Landry had a limited ceiling and he was approaching it.  I believe that he out-played Dobbs consistently and was comfortable doing more things with this offense "right now."  The problem with Landry is he didn't have a high ceiling and I believe that the more he played the more defenses would take what he was effective doing.  I believe the Steelers beat the Raiders with Landry last year when Ben got hurt and had to come in off the bench to try to tie the game at the end of regulation.  I didn't like what I saw of Mason in pre-season and camp and in "my perfect world" he would have sat another year, learned and been ready to take over the back-up QB in 2020 or perhaps played later this year if Landry struggled.  I think all that Dobbs needed was more time to be more effective as well.  This is a play now era, but it does take time to develop and get comfortable with the NFL game.  

As we have discussed in various thrads before, Terry Bradshaw would have been considered a bad pick under today's terms.  It took TB nearly seven season before he became a more efficient passer and more effective QB.  They won in 1974 and 1975 based on the defense and ability to run more than the great Bradshaw's arm.  I love TB, but that is just my opinion. 

The thing I like about Mason the most....he is the anti Landry Jones. When he sees something, he puts it on the receiver. Jones always looked like he was scared to actually let go of the ball.

Jones frustrated me at times as much as anyone else, but he didn't ever appear to be afraid to me.  He was a back-up and sometimes played like one.  I never believed that Jones ceiling was as an all pro QB.  I am not sure Mason's is there yet until he gets some experience.  I honestly believed that Landry could have been a Charlie Batch type of starter/back-up.  He got cut and didn't light up the world elsewhere, so that speaks for itself. However, I think he could have been a fine back-up for the Steelers.

He could make the read, but just looked like as he was winding up he was second guessing and never confidently threw the ball. Mason doesn't seem to have that problem. He makes his read and throws with confidence. I like that, a lot. 

The only game that I can recall where Landry looked anywhere close to shook up was versus the Patriots at home.  The defense and scheming seemed to get to him after the AB end zone INT.  Aside from that he seemed to let her rip when he got the chance.  Even in the KC game that the team lost, he tried to sling the ball.  I see far more hesitancy with Mason than I do Landry.  I know Mason doesn't want to make a mistake.  I also appreciate that he is being smart with the ball, but he needs to throw some of those passes downfield.  The OC can help with getting a few quick outs and crosses going on early downs.  They check downs are great, but teams will also clue in on this as Seattle and San Fran did with more success than the Bengals. They will have to get James Washington involved and if Ju Ju is out, may need to try throwing to (dare I say) Moncrief....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

 I see far more hesitancy with Mason than I do Landry.

I dont see any hesitancy throwing the football with Mason. Landry I did, he used to lollypop some balls he shouldnt have or the came out of his hand wobbly -- usually pointing to uncertainty and more thought on your placement/process than just letting your mechanics and practice work for themselves. I dont think Landry played scared, I think he THREW scared at times. Mason isnt throwing scared, he just isnt fully sure what he is looking at -- which is super understandable. 

Mason is hesitant to trust what he is seeing. Im watching some of the replays again and he absolutely has a couple shots he doesnt take. He is hesitant in what he is seeing, but he is not hesitant once he decides to throw. JuJu had a chance for a big game actually, Mason missed him twice from what I saw on check downs. 

Once you decide to pull the trigger as a QB, there cannot be second thoughts - its gotta go. That's where I saw issue with Landry. I don't see that right now with Mason. Being a young guy, that's a really good thing. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I know everyone is scared of this offense not going down the field, but give Mason a couple games to not have everything looking like a blur in front of him. I thought he looked extremely comfortable in the pocket and moving through his progressions -- he just moved too quickly at times. Mentioned it in the gameday thread but if he holds his look on JuJu crossing the field instead of dumping down to Connor (I think?) he had a 15-20 yard completion and JuJu 1 on 1 with a safety to beat for the score. That stuff comes with more high speed reps and more confidence. As soon as he gets more comfortable acknowledging what he is seeing, he will hang through that and get the ball down the field. 

The thing I like about Mason the most....he is the anti Landry Jones. When he sees something, he puts it on the receiver. Jones always looked like he was scared to actually let go of the ball. He could make the read, but just looked like as he was winding up he was second guessing and never confidently threw the ball. Mason doesnt seem to have that problem. He makes his read and throws with confidence. I like that, a lot. 

No concerns with Mason, more with the OC than anything, and of course  the WR's dropping passes.  They might have opted to have the bungles game as such to throw the ravens off. It might be enough to help distract the ravens enough for the win.  Ravens aren't playing good defence, I expect Mason to have a good game actually.  The question I have for this game is about our D. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mason undoubtedly has more potential than Landry ever did. I didn't even think that was a question. Now, by no means am I saying Mason is going to be great, but I at least think he can become a solid stop Gap starter or a great backup. With Landry, I never felt he was anything more than a mediocre backup, and I felt that way when he was coming out of college to.

Still way too early to judge Mason, but he has pretty good pocket presence thus far, seems pretty smart with the football, and has a decent arm. However, until they give him a chance to move the ball downfield, we won't know what we have in him. The dink dunk game will only take us so far.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I don't see any hesitancy throwing the football with Mason. Landry I did, he used to lollypop some balls he shouldn't have or the came out of his hand wobbly -- usually pointing to uncertainty and more thought on your placement/process than just letting your mechanics and practice work for themselves. I don't think Landry played scared, I think he THREW scared at times. Mason isn't throwing scared, he just isn't fully sure what he is looking at -- which is super understandable. 

As they sat tomato or tomato. It is all how it is pronounced.  Mason is a better overall QB with better potential than Landry.  Mason will improve the more he plays and get better.  How much better is a mystery at this point.  Hesitancy or throwing scared , they are quite similar. We will respectfully agree to disagree about this one.  Mason is hesitant and admits that he needs to trust himself and the receivers and throw the ball downfield more.  It seems that Mason has more moxy, swag or confidence early on. I agree, but because Landry didn't seem to have that same "swag" doesn't take away from the fact he let the ball go threw downfield more. Just stating facts that the statistics would back.  Statistically Mason is far more efficient than Landry was in his second start.

Mason is hesitant to trust what he is seeing. I'm watching some of the replays again and he absolutely has a couple shots he doesn't take.

I see the same thing and that is all that I was stating. Landry didn't always connect, but it appears that he let the ball fly more early on. That is more only point.

 

13 hours ago, 3rivers said:

No concerns with Mason, more with the OC than anything, and of course  the WR's dropping passes.  They might have opted to have the bungles game as such to throw the ravens off. It might be enough to help distract the ravens enough for the win.  Ravens aren't playing good defense, I expect Mason to have a good game actually.  The question I have for this game is about our D. 

They didn't get many passes thrown their way to drop.  Most of Mason's throws are between being behind the line of scrimmage and seven yards.  He has thrown a few long passes for TD's. I am just saying that I would like to see him do  that more often as well as throwing some intermediate passes. I am sure that the Steelers hope to do things to make future opponents think, but make no mistake last Monday was primarily about getting win #1.

While the numbers on the Ravens defense are not as dominant as the past, they are still a very good defense and could give our inconsistent offense fits. I don't take the Ravens defense lightly.

8 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Mason undoubtedly has more potential than Landry ever did. I didn't even think that was a question. Now, by no means am I saying Mason is going to be great, but I at least think he can become a solid stop-gap starter or a great backup. With Landry, I never felt he was anything more than a mediocre backup, and I felt that way when he was coming out of college too.

Still way too early to judge Mason, but he has pretty good pocket presence thus far, seems pretty smart with the football, and has a decent arm. However, until they give him a chance to move the ball downfield, we won't know what we have in him. The dink dunk game will only take us so far.

43mafia is pretty much echoing my sentiments and feelings on both Mason and Landry. I think Landry was comfortable with our system and had some trut of some of the offensive players.  He was also better groomed as a back-up seeing action when Ben got hurt and at the end of the year a few times to get reps. Neither Dobbs or Mason got that. I thought Dobbs had a slightly higher ceiling than Landry last year, but I preferred the security of Landry as a back-up over Dobbs or a rookie Mason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like Vince will be back. We'll really need him to counter the power run game of the Ravens. His absence was definitely felt as soon as he exited the Seahawks game. Our defense is markedly better with him on the field. Stopping the run, providing extra toughness, calling the defense, and leadership. I expect Vince to make a big impact. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Looks like Vince will be back. We'll really need him to counter the power run game of the Ravens. His absence was definitely felt as soon as he exited the Seahawks game. Our defense is markedly better with him on the field. Stopping the run, providing extra toughness, calling the defense, and leadership. I expect Vince to make a big impact. 

I am still torn on my Vince Williams feelings as a starter.  I don't think he is as good a run stuffer and starter as some fans think.  Last year, our best run stuffing ILB was Jon Bostic. I still believe that the decline of the run defense came as a result of the lack of offense and keeping the defense on the field for so long moreso than Vince leaving due to injury.  Yes Bush got tested and exposed a little in the run game and trying to cover their 6'6 TE Dissley.  However, the defense is getting better and creating more turnovers as the young guys and offense both improve.  The defense has made some stops and created turnovers, the offense needs to continue to improve and evolve. 

My frustration is that I have been expecting the big impact from Vince for a few years now. I have come to accept him for what he is good at: Blitzing and occasionally being a decent run stuffing ILB.  Vince typically doesn't call the defense from what I recall.  Last year it was Bostic. When Shazier went down he didn't call the defense then either if I recall. Vince has been in this defense his entire career and does not seem to really know the defensive scheme. While I wasn't expecting Vince to be the next Jack Lambert, I was expecting more out of him as a starter and two-down ILB who can occasionally blitz exceptionally well inside.  I have also had some concerns with Mark Baron and hopefully between the two of them, they can provide the proper impact needed next to young Devin Bush. I hope he proves me wrong, but I have been waiting for that train to take off and ride for a while so to speak.

I expect Bush to continue to grow and make a difference as he learns just as Minkah Fitzpatrick has come in and the amount of mistakes on the back end have decreased.  I am also a Sean Davis fan, but like Vince, he has not been consistent in jelling the middle of the defense.  I am not bashing Vince as I think he brings good depth and rotation inside.  I am more disappointed as I have had higher expectations of him as I have others as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Vince's problem is the dude next to him. He looked poor when he wasn't with an athletic running mate. He's looked the best with Shazier. Now we have Bush(and maybe Barron) as the athletic MACK and I think we'll see Vince flourish again. The more and more comfortable Bush gets, the better we'll be able to utilize Vince. Also, I know it is a tiny sample size but Vince was pounding Seattle's run game until he went down, at least by the eye test. Maybe I'm wrong.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

just notice stephon tuitt is only 26. His prime might just be getting started if he can stay healthy. This defense has a promising future with a core of Watt, Tuitt, Minka, Bush, Nelson, Edmunds ..all these guys have room to grow. just hope the team can get it out of them while their here

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...