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Birds of Prey


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15 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

This is EXACTLY what I hate seeing. It's BS. It's a flipping superhero movie. Was Wonder Woman not for me? Was Captain Marvel not for me? It's a cop out answer to explain a forced agenda. I also think 43, KMan, I and many others have made it clear we aren't going to see it. It's frustrating because I wanted to see it and now I won't.

Ah the "legitimate pandering is pandering towards my sensibilities and worldview" comment.

Regardless of PERCIEVED "agenda" this movie is still going to peddle the same "Individual saviors overcoming evil by taking down individuals instead of systems " nonsense all Superhero movies have all peddled. 

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25 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Was MoS targeted towards young women? How about BvS? Joker?

It's a superhero movie, but superhero movies don't always mean they are going to be targeted at every possible audience. Most will, but not all do.

I'm sorry you had hopes for seeing this but now won't because it has a theme you don't want to see put on screen. They apparently decided to go for a feminist approach. Oh well, maybe the next one will be more generic.

Another cop out.

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7 minutes ago, animaltested said:

Ah the "legitimate pandering is pandering towards my sensibilities and worldview" comment.

Regardless of PERCIEVED "agenda" this movie is still going to peddle the same "Individual saviors overcoming evil by taking down individuals instead of systems " nonsense all Superhero movies have all peddled. 

It's actually the opposite. I'm saying pandering at all is stupid. It's bad business. Going out and calling this a feminist film that tackles misogyny is a great way to kill half your potential audience. I'm not asking for them to cater to me. I'm asking them to not blatantly pander to anyone. They had my money when characters I really enjoyed seeing were getting their own movie. Then they lost it by trying to gain brownie points to make it political. It's terrible business strategy. 

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43 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Was MoS targeted towards young women? How about BvS? Joker?

It's a superhero movie, but superhero movies don't always mean they are going to be targeted at every possible audience. Most will, but not all do.

I'm sorry you had hopes for seeing this but now won't because it has a theme you don't want to see put on screen. They apparently decided to go for a feminist approach. Oh well, maybe the next one will be more generic.

Pretty sure MoS and BvS target was as many people who would pay to see those movies. The Joker most especially because the target is our views on violence and what leads up to the individual doing it. It actually had a message exposing the evil behind that thinking. 

More then likely these women are going to shoot people, bash their heads in, probably commit mass murder on "evil men" and the media will forget all about "inspiring violence" and say this is a great movie with a great message for women. 

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3 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

It's actually the opposite. I'm saying pandering at all is stupid. It's bad business. Going out and calling this a feminist film that tackles misogyny is a great way to kill half your potential audience. I'm not asking for them to cater to me. I'm asking them to not blatantly pander to anyone. They had my money when characters I really enjoyed seeing were getting their own movie. Then they lost it by trying to gain brownie points to make it political. It's terrible business strategy. 

All mediums pander to their audience. All mediums are crafted from and express a set of viewpoints and perspectives; which includes politics.  You obviously had no issues with the agendas of previous "like" films, because their agendas either fit with your view points and sensibilities, or where so engrained in contemporary, mainline worldviews, you didn't notice. So whats left to interpret is It isn't about pandering, or agendas in general, its about the specific issues you (and other fellow opinioned people) have a negative reaction to because of disagreement or discomfort with.  Being able to say, one set of agendas are fine and not forced, and others have no place and are being forced comes from a very high seat of privilege. 

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29 minutes ago, animaltested said:

All mediums pander to their audience. All mediums are crafted from and express a set of viewpoints and perspectives; which includes politics.  You obviously had no issues with the agendas of previous "like" films, because their agendas either fit with your view points and sensibilities, or where so engrained in contemporary, mainline worldviews, you didn't notice. So whats left to interpret is It isn't about pandering, or agendas in general, its about the specific issues you (and other fellow opinioned people) have a negative reaction to because of disagreement or discomfort with.  Being able to say, one set of agendas are fine and not forced, and others have no place and are being forced comes from a very high seat of privilege. 

Give examples then. I want to know what these movies I liked with obvious pandering/political agenda behind them and in their marketing. Do I have biases? Absolutely. I don't try to push anything on anyone though. You don't know anything about me so assuming I'm not comfortable with feminism (clearly haven't met my mom lately) or that I'm of privilege is both unnecessary and irrelevant.

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9 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Give examples then. I want to know what these movies I liked with obvious pandering/political agenda behind them and in their marketing. 

Since we are in a comic book movie thread, gonna assume you enjoy those movies so..

Like I said previous, the Marvel-DC movies all for the most part put forth the "evil is individuals not systems" narrative. That's an agenda that touches both politically and economically. 

Marvel-DC are steeped in American Exceptionalism, and the view of a few being the only ones powerful enough to protect to world from both itself and outside threats (those two go hand in hand).

Batman in general has very political viewpoints regarding surveillance, vigilantism, and the entire "ends justify the means" narrative. 

In all the DC-Marvel movies, the government is seen as wholly, corrupt, incompetent or at the very least, and roadblock for the heros to overcome. That's a pretty straightforward agenda. 

 

Just a few. Again I am assuming a lot here (movie you enjoy). Now, I'm not saying these are bad, but that these are all an agenda, and they are pandering to people who have similar views. My point is, in general, people don't feel these are "forced" agendas, even though they are agendas, put forth by the creator for the audiences consumption. So why aren't they seen for what they are? And if someone has issues with "politics" or agendas in their entertainment, why do they consume so much entertainment with agendas and politics?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bullet Club said:

It's actually the opposite. I'm saying pandering at all is stupid. It's bad business. Going out and calling this a feminist film that tackles misogyny is a great way to kill half your potential audience. I'm not asking for them to cater to me. I'm asking them to not blatantly pander to anyone. They had my money when characters I really enjoyed seeing were getting their own movie. Then they lost it by trying to gain brownie points to make it political. It's terrible business strategy. 

This doesn't really make sense... you can't target every audience. When you make a Horror movie, you instantly lose potential business from people who dont like Horror flicks. When you make the horror movie a college humor nudity fest you lose the hardcore classic horror fans. Every movie has a target audience, its not terrible business strategy its just fact. 

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2 minutes ago, animaltested said:

Since we are in a comic book movie thread, gonna assume you enjoy those movies so..

Like I said previous, the Marvel-DC movies all for the most part put forth the "evil is individuals not systems" narrative. That's an agenda that touches both politically and economically. 

Marvel-DC are steeped in American Exceptionalism, and the view of a few being the only ones powerful enough to protect to world from both itself and outside threats (those two go hand in hand).

Batman in general has very political viewpoints regarding surveillance, vigilantism, and the entire "ends justify the means" narrative. 

In all the DC-Marvel movies, the government is seen as wholly, corrupt, incompetent or at the very least, and roadblock for the heros to overcome. That's a pretty straightforward agenda. 

 

Just a few. Again I am assuming a lot here (movie you enjoy). Now, I'm not saying these are bad, but that these are all an agenda, and they are pandering to people who have similar views. My point is, in general, people don't feel these are "forced" agendas, even though they are agendas, put forth by the creator for the audiences consumption. So why aren't they seen for what they are? And if someone has issues with "politics" or agendas in their entertainment, why do they consume so much entertainment with agendas and politics?

 

 

My counter would be this: 

No specific examples but the general areas you hit encompass a lot of the things I like and accurately tie them into politics. My point is not: "don't have a message". Obviously movies all have their messages and meanings behind them. That doesn't mean you you don't market it that way with the cause front and center. DC is turning this into a habit. First with Supergirl, then Batwoman and now Birds of Prey. I just want quality content from characters I enjoy without being beaten over the head with the politics of it.

I don't see DC movies advertised or marketed as an American Exceptionalism movie even if that is an underlying theme. 

I don't see Batman movies marketed as pro-surveillance movies even if that is an underlying theme. 

I certainly don't see any movies being marketed as targeting misandry.

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2 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

This doesn't really make sense... you can't target every audience. When you make a Horror movie, you instantly lose potential business from people who dont like Horror flicks. When you make the horror movie a college humor nudity fest you lose the hardcore classic horror fans. Every movie has a target audience, its not terrible business strategy its just fact. 

You are confusing targeting audience with eliminating one.

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1 minute ago, Deadpulse said:

Am I? When you make a Horror movie are you not targeting the Horror audience? 

That's a target audience.

The apt comparison would be calling a movie a feminist horror movie and marketing it as such despite horror being watched by more males than females and R-rated movies being watched by more males than females. That's fine if your a niche movie I guess. I don't think that's what Birds of Prey wants to be. Maybe I'm wrong.

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30 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

My counter would be this: 

No specific examples but the general areas you hit encompass a lot of the things I like and accurately tie them into politics. My point is not: "don't have a message". Obviously movies all have their messages and meanings behind them. That doesn't mean you you don't market it that way with the cause front and center. DC is turning this into a habit. First with Supergirl, then Batwoman and now Birds of Prey. I just want quality content from characters I enjoy without being beaten over the head with the politics of it.

I don't see DC movies advertised or marketed as an American Exceptionalism movie even if that is an underlying theme. 

I don't see Batman movies marketed as pro-surveillance movies even if that is an underlying theme. 

I certainly don't see any movies being marketed as targeting misandry.

So your issue is with the marketing, no the content? This is odd considering you seemed to be interested in the movie while the trailers were out, and lost interest when you heard the content could touch of themes you don't want to see. Maybe I misread?

Also, there seems to be a specific theme in marketing you have an issue with. Why is that particular marketing so problematic? Is it you just don't want to see it?

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