Jlowe22 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, gen. manager said: They've done too much missing. That scouting department needs to be looked at too. Not counting this year, I see a couple good proven pieces. Other than that, a coin flip at best. I'm only saying we're trending in the right direction. And remember, bounty gate also screwed us some draft picks. Loomis and Payton drafted extremely well from 2006-2009, and we got Jimmy graham in 2010. We got two studs in 2011, then bounty gate happened, and several years of bad drafting ensued, but now it's looking better. Only time will tell for sure on our last two drafts, but it looks good at the moment. What really hurts us, is high defensive picks like Akiem Hicks, Vacarro, and stephone Anthony should have improved this defense, but didn't And they may all be studs elsewhere. And all of our CBs not named Lattimore have been garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gen. manager Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 But that's years and years and years ago lol. We're in 2017. And does it look that good right now? Andrus Peat hasn't been a first round star. Michael Thomas has been a nice piece. Vonn Bell is so good they drafted another safety this year and Stephone Anthony is awful. Vaccaro hasn't been that good either. We've got to be honest here. That scouting department has been collecting an undeserved paycheck, starting with Payton and Loomis. Most of the picks aren't even on the team anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 You realize that Bell and Williams play different positions with different skills right? That's like saying that drafting Jimmy Graham replaces Marcus Colston or Rankins would be to replace Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gen. manager Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Bell is a run stopper, Williams is ball hawk, duh...Bell went...2nd round? You think he's given a 2nd round pick type effort and lift to this defense? You want to fight but there's no debate. Saints have drafted terribly. You can't play a gazillion safeties on the field. They started two and Bell wasn't one of those. End of sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, gen. manager said: But that's years and years and years ago lol. We're in 2017. And does it look that good right now? Andrus Peat hasn't been a first round star. Michael Thomas has been a nice piece. Vonn Bell is so good they drafted another safety this year and Stephone Anthony is awful. Vaccaro hasn't been that good either. We've got to be honest here. That scouting department has been collecting an undeserved paycheck, starting with Payton and Loomis. Most of the picks aren't even on the team anymore! I pointed out that our drafting has been good, save for the several years after bountygate, which obviously hurts us, but the past couple of years have been trending in the right direction. I also pointed out that our high defensive picks during that stretch have not improved our defense at all, which really hurts us. And it's a double whammy that our free agent signings like Byrd and Browner have been a disaster. Cam Jordan has been singlehandedly carrying this defense for years. I'm not really sure what the point of this discussion is though, we all want a complete front office change anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gen. manager Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I don't feel the drafting has been that good. Cam Jordan and Lattimore are the only two defensive picks they can hang their hat on. And if it were trending in the right direction, this team wouldn't be 7-9 the past 3 years. You'd start to see that talent develop into something this year, not another 0-2 start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 You are the definition of this new generation. Always about instant gratification and not realizing nothing happens overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gen. manager Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Don't get personal. Three years isn't overnight either. Three years is three years. You either have it or you don't. Three years of 7-9. And you're talking about instant gratification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Iowa Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 If Payton were JUST the offensive coordinator, I think his job would probably be safe... probably. Anyone can look at this and say the play calling is suspect, and it kind of is, yet the lack of production from the line is what's killing the run game. I don't think the line is killing the passing game. When the D can't produce, it takes the offense out of system, and they become 1 dimensional, and relatively ineffective. But he's not, he's not JUST the OC, he the HC and has control over this entire system and he's screwed it up so badly that we can't see a victory anywhere near. In fact, I think this may be the year the Saints can't rattle, but actually get rattled by Cutler in London. That could be the final straw, IMO. Blame Allen, Ryan, Greg Williams, Gibbs, whoever you want, but the only respectable DC we've had was GW, and he rattled Payton (with bountygate) so much, Payton's damaged goods now and needs to be JUST an OC. Maybe we fire Payton, Brees will leave, and in 4 years we hire Brees as our OC. This debacle is mostly Payton's fault, and somewhat Loomis' fault for letting Payton have too much control, and not stepping in to correct the issue. ............a contract extension should help........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Mid Iowa said: If Payton were JUST the offensive coordinator, I think his job would probably be safe... probably. Anyone can look at this and say the play calling is suspect, and it kind of is, yet the lack of production from the line is what's killing the run game. I don't think the line is killing the passing game. When the D can't produce, it takes the offense out of system, and they become 1 dimensional, and relatively ineffective. But he's not, he's not JUST the OC, he the HC and has control over this entire system and he's screwed it up so badly that we can't see a victory anywhere near. In fact, I think this may be the year the Saints can't rattle, but actually get rattled by Cutler in London. That could be the final straw, IMO. Blame Allen, Ryan, Greg Williams, Gibbs, whoever you want, but the only respectable DC we've had was GW, and he rattled Payton (with bountygate) so much, Payton's damaged goods now and needs to be JUST an OC. Maybe we fire Payton, Brees will leave, and in 4 years we hire Brees as our OC. This debacle is mostly Payton's fault, and somewhat Loomis' fault for letting Payton have too much control, and not stepping in to correct the issue. ............a contract extension should help........ I wouldn't be at all unhappy if Loomis cleaned house and then hires a "Football guy" to come in and run the show as he maintains his position as VP. There are plenty of good football minds out their starving for their chance and thats whats missing... That hunger. Paytons calims to still have it but i doubt it. I think hes delusional when it comes to what the state of this franchise truly is. ? it down... Rebuild from the ashes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 7 hours ago, whodatworm23 said: I wouldn't be at all unhappy if Loomis cleaned house and then hires a "Football guy" to come in and run the show as he maintains his position as VP. There are plenty of good football minds out their starving for their chance and thats whats missing... That hunger. Paytons calims to still have it but i doubt it. I think hes delusional when it comes to what the state of this franchise truly is. ? it down... Rebuild from the ashes! Maybe, I tend to think he's just terribly incompetent on matters of defense. I'm not looking as forward to a rebuild as some of you are, I don't want to be garbage for thirty more years if it doesn't work out. And in the meantime, we get to watch a sloppy dumpster fire go 3-13 every year and score 12 points a game. But, we got to do something, because we're garbage right now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Paytons success in the post season has been something this franchise has never seen but lets get a grip here. Its not like we have never seen winning football before here. You do realize that Payton just became the winningest coach in franchise history late last year passing Mora right. Yes Mora never won in the post season but lets stop with the "we will def suck when Payton leaves". We suck now amd being in 7-9 nfl purgatory is worse than a few 3-13 or 4-12 seasons. If your front office is compentent then a great team can be built im those down years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Sitting here watching MNF Loins vs Giants and i cant help but imagine Lions DC Teryl Austin as the Saints next HC! How hes developed CB Darius Slay... Id love to see what he could do with Lattimore. His 43 shceme would be an excellent fit for guys like Jordan, Rankins, Onyamata, Bell, M. Williams and Anzalone. He drafted one of my fav players in the draft last year in the LB Davis from Florida amd it lools like a MAJOR hit! Sure would be a solid hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, whodatworm23 said: Paytons success in the post season has been something this franchise has never seen but lets get a grip here. Its not like we have never seen winning football before here. You do realize that Payton just became the winningest coach in franchise history late last year passing Mora right. Yes Mora never won in the post season but lets stop with the "we will def suck when Payton leaves". We suck now amd being in 7-9 nfl purgatory is worse than a few 3-13 or 4-12 seasons. If your front office is compentent then a great team can be built im those down years. Yea, 7-9 won't cut it. And there's always a chance we'll have a quick rebuild and be back in the postseason. But we're not a franchise like Steelers, Packers, Cowboys that have relatively fast rebuilds and sustained success. We've had several decent years with Mora where we didn't win a playoff game, and a decade of Payton/Brees where we won a superbowl. Other than that, we've been garbage and that's just a fact. You need an elite QB to win in today's league and they're hard to find. An elite defense can get you by with an average QB, but elite defenses are hard to build too. Really, all I'm hoping for is that after Payton and Brees leaves, we go 2-14 every year until we draft the next Peyton Manning with our perpetual number 1 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 43 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: Yea, 7-9 won't cut it. And there's always a chance we'll have a quick rebuild and be back in the postseason. But we're not a franchise like Steelers, Packers, Cowboys that have relatively fast rebuilds and sustained success. We've had several decent years with Mora where we didn't win a playoff game, and a decade of Payton/Brees where we won a superbowl. Other than that, we've been garbage and that's just a fact. You need an elite QB to win in today's league and they're hard to find. An elite defense can get you by with an average QB, but elite defenses are hard to build too. Really, all I'm hoping for is that after Payton and Brees leaves, we go 2-14 every year until we draft the next Peyton Manning with our perpetual number 1 picks. I think we have a lot of the right type of players in place, they just need the coaching, oh and of course getting a QB to replace Brees. I think we oculd be back in the playoffs within 2 years with the right coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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