Jon Robinson

[Andrei01]

On 1/15/2020 at 5:30 PM, titanrick said:

Except it's a regular season award so in that realm, we are just a 9-7 team barely sneaking into the playoffs.

But I'm ok with all that.  Lamar can have him MVP - we'll take the postseason success. 

It is a regular season award, but he traded a 4th for the MVP of the second half of the season, and he had Miami pay for his salary. If that trade alone is not enough to at least have him in the running, I have no idea what is, really. Add to it a way above average starter in Simmons and a OROY candidate in Brown, plus several good role players added either in the Draft or in FA. The fact that people still don't value us (or him) enough to at least have him in the conversation is so damn disrespectful. I hardly think you can find someone who since he came here has done a better job at finding talent.

[ragevsuall17]

17 hours ago, Andrei01 said:

It is a regular season award, but he traded a 4th for the MVP of the second half of the season, and he had Miami pay for his salary. If that trade alone is not enough to at least have him in the running, I have no idea what is, really. Add to it a way above average starter in Simmons and a OROY candidate in Brown, plus several good role players added either in the Draft or in FA. The fact that people still don't value us (or him) enough to at least have him in the conversation is so damn disrespectful. I hardly think you can find someone who since he came here has done a better job at finding talent.

I don't know his much this will play into it, but there was that report earlier that mgmt insisted on keeping Mariota out there as long as they did. No word if that was him or if it came from ownership... But there's that. 

Great moves this year though... Tanny is obviously the best, especially at that price... But the draft, The two Gs that have helped contribute to this run game dominance, the small moves that go unnoticed (ie Blasingame). 

His only real blemish is the pass rush, and the miss that was Wake. That's it though. All other buttons pushed were successes this year. 

 

I'll eat that crow... Thought the Art Smith move was a horrible failure 6 weeks in and could do the regime in. But RT made all the difference... Didn't think the team would rally around him knowing how they felt about Marcus. A ton of credit to the leadership on the team that definitely includes JRob and Vrabel. 

[TitanSS]

I don't really see Wake as that much of a miss. He was pretty good at applying pressure to the QB when he was healthy and the outside pass rush is essentially non-existent since he left. At one point we were one of the better teams at applying pressure to the QB, and credit for that was given to Pees and sending corners and safeties. Well, we still do that and our pass rush has been awful since he left. 

He also only cost us 5.2m against the cap this year with an APY of 7.6m. That's compared to who most of us wanted, Za'Darius Smith, who gets 16.5m APY and really can't be cut until before the 2022 season without 10m in dead money.  He had a very low cap number this year, but will really be collecting next year and the year after bring in about 20m per year. 

It wasn't exactly a home run, but I think our pass rush looks a lot better right now if he stays healthy. His age and increasing cap number with very little dead money likely gets him cut. Basically cost us like 7.9m to rent him for a year.

[titanrick]

9 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I don't know his much this will play into it, but there was that report earlier that mgmt insisted on keeping Mariota out there as long as they did.

Probably an unpopular position but I would argue this was the right call.  No one knew Tanny would put up one of the greatest half-seasons in QB history and we really needed to know once and for all if Marcus had the franchise potential.  He's been so up and down and injured that it wasn't clear before this year that it wasn't happening, despite what the trolls in NFL Gen say about him.  Now we know.  Wasn't the answer we hoped for, but now we can focus on Tanny for the future.

Edited January 17, 2020 by titanrick

[TitanSS]

I would argue, and I don't think it's much of an argument, that we already knew Mariota did not have what it takes to be a franchise QB and that he was simply playing out his final season as our best option at a position that is hard to find.  It just so happens that Tannehill was a much better option. 

There may be no truth to that report as it wasn't from any real trustworthy sources and really wasn't ever more than a rumor. The actual report is from Michael Lombardi, a former Browns GM, who is no longer with an NFL organization and has no ties with the Tennessee Titans.

But let's all be honest. If Ryan Tannehill went into pre-season as the starting QB, the fans would have rioted. Despite the fact that he was rarely any good, he was adored, and starting a QB who was PFFs worst rated passer last year over him would have caused an uproar. I don't think starting Tannehill week 1 was ever really a realistic option.

If there ever was any inner controversy, it was probably coaches saying Tannehill had been better at practice and the front office explaining the PR nightware that would ensue if they made the switch too early.

 

 

[titanrick]

30 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I would argue, and I don't think it's much of an argument, that we already knew Mariota did not have what it takes to be a franchise QB and that he was simply playing out his final season as our best option at a position that is hard to find.

Mariota was hurt all last year.  Didn't play well but the fact he played at all with a nerve injury that meant he couldn't feel his throwing hand is insane.  And the year before that?  He willed us to a playoff comeback win on the road, down 18 at Arrowhead.  I mean, sure - in hindsight, maybe it now seems obvious.  But it wasn't back then.

[TitanSS]

5 hours ago, titanrick said:

Mariota was hurt all last year.  Didn't play well but the fact he played at all with a nerve injury that meant he couldn't feel his throwing hand is insane.  And the year before that?  He willed us to a playoff comeback win on the road, down 18 at Arrowhead.  I mean, sure - in hindsight, maybe it now seems obvious.  But it wasn't back then.

It wasn't obvious back in 2017, but it became obvious last season. We always had an excuse for Marcus. I never wanted Mularkey as a coach, but if Mariota was playing at a franchise QB level in 2017, he doesn't get fired. So we all knew he wasn't on that level that he needed to be in 2017, but it was just that none of us thought Mariota was the problem. The HC and OC were the problem in our minds. I think pretty much everyone outside of Tennessee had bailed on him though.

 

[ragevsuall17]

13 hours ago, TitanSS said:

I don't really see Wake as that much of a miss. He was pretty good at applying pressure to the QB when he was healthy and the outside pass rush is essentially non-existent since he left. At one point we were one of the better teams at applying pressure to the QB, and credit for that was given to Pees and sending corners and safeties. Well, we still do that and our pass rush has been awful since he left. 

He also only cost us 5.2m against the cap this year with an APY of 7.6m. That's compared to who most of us wanted, Za'Darius Smith, who gets 16.5m APY and really can't be cut until before the 2022 season without 10m in dead money.  He had a very low cap number this year, but will really be collecting next year and the year after bring in about 20m per year. 

It wasn't exactly a home run, but I think our pass rush looks a lot better right now if he stays healthy. His age and increasing cap number with very little dead money likely gets him cut. Basically cost us like 7.9m to rent him for a year.

Id 100% rather pay Zadarius double... Didn't Zadarius get over 60 pressures this year? Wake didn't even get 200 snaps. That's a miss, especially considering it s one of our top needs going into last season. And it remains one of the biggest beds going into next offseason.

Is ok to have misses... We don't have to sugar coat everything to admit he's done a good job overall. 

7 hours ago, titanrick said:

Probably an unpopular position but I would argue this was the right call.  No one knew Tanny would put up one of the greatest half-seasons in QB history and we really needed to know once and for all if Marcus had the franchise potential.  He's been so up and down and injured that it wasn't clear before this year that it wasn't happening, despite what the trolls in NFL Gen say about him.  Now we know.  Wasn't the answer we hoped for, but now we can focus on Tanny for the future.

I agree... I thought Mariota deserved another shot and would make us happy we have it to him. I didn't think Tanny was anything more than Mariota was. I was wrong obviously. 

And we don't even know if JRob was the one behind this... It very well could have been AAS... But I think the whole situation probably throws some murkiness into his 2019 resume. 

To be honest, the DeCosta and their 14-2 record and 1 billion all pros and pro bowlers have that award pretty wrapped up, I'd think. Maybe even Lynch in SF is a close 2nd.

Jrobs done a fantastic job, I can admit it now... But I dont think nearly enough to get more than a handful of votes 

Edited January 18, 2020 by ragevsuall17

[-Hope-]

27 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

It wasn't obvious back in 2017, but it became obvious last season. We always had an excuse for Marcus. I never wanted Mularkey as a coach, but if Mariota was playing at a franchise QB level in 2017, he doesn't get fired. So we all knew he wasn't on that level that he needed to be in 2017, but it was just that none of us thought Mariota was the problem. The HC and OC were the problem in our minds. I think pretty much everyone outside of Tennessee had bailed on him though.

 

people sometimes blame injuries for jake locker’s failure, but the reality is he just wasn’t very good to begin with. with marcus, however, i genuinely believe it was the injuries that did him in. he lost something mentally after the broken fibula and then even worse after the ulnar nerve. without those two injuries i genuinely think he’d still be our QB. the hesitant, indecisive, inaccurate mess he became bears no resemblance to what we saw his first two years in the league.

[TitanSS]

12 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Id 100% rather pay Zadarius double... Didn't Zadarius get over 60 pressures this year? Wake didn't even get 200 snaps. That's a miss, especially considering it s one of our top needs going into last season. And it remains one of the biggest beds going into next offseason.

Is ok to have misses... We don't have to sugar coat everything to admit he's done a good job overall. 

I agree... I thought Mariota deserved another shot and would make us happy we have it to him. I didn't think Tanny was anything more than Mariota was. I was wrong obviously. 

And we don't even know if JRob was the one behind this... It very well could have been AAS... But I think the whole situation probably throws some murkiness into his 2019 resume. 

To be honest, the DeCosta and their 14-2 record and 1 billion all pros and pro bowlers have that award pretty wrapped up, I'd think. Maybe even Lynch in SF is a close 2nd.

Jrobs done a fantastic job, I can admit it now... But I dont think nearly enough to get more than a handful of votes 

You're talking about snap counts for someone who was injured almost half the season. He was paid as a situational pass rusher and that's what he was. Za'Darius Smith had 18 sacks in the 4 years prior to this year. He has lived up to the contract, but if I knew we were giving him 18m a year based on what he had previously done I would have been upset. It worked out, so it looks like a great move, but I'm not going to fault Robinson for not giving out Von MIller money to guys whose best two years were 5.5 and 8.5 sacks.

I'm not saying Wake was a great hit. I'm saying our pass rush was significantly better when he was on the field healthy. I think the intent was to use Wake as a cheap stop gap and find someone younger in the future who doesn't count for 20m against our cap when we have to pay a QB, RB, OT, and CB top dollar coming up. We rented a pretty good situational pass rusher for a year fairly cheap, and it's just unfortunate that he got hurt. It didn't work out, primarily because of the injury, but I don't think that makes it some massive gaffe for Robinson.

People are fine paying a ton for a good player, and I would have loved to have Za'Darius Smith, but one of our guys this year would be walking for sure. We're probably looking at letting Ryan and Henry walk to afford him. I would 100% be okay with that after what he did this season, but I know a lot of people here who wouldn't be, and I did not think that was a good looking contract for Green Bay prior to this season.

Edited January 18, 2020 by TitanSS

[TitanSS]

12 hours ago, -Hope- said:

people sometimes blame injuries for jake locker’s failure, but the reality is he just wasn’t very good to begin with. with marcus, however, i genuinely believe it was the injuries that did him in. he lost something mentally after the broken fibula and then even worse after the ulnar nerve. without those two injuries i genuinely think he’d still be our QB. the hesitant, indecisive, inaccurate mess he became bears no resemblance to what we saw his first two years in the league.

A lot of young QBs look good in the first year or two prior to NFL defensive coordinators figuring out what they like to do and how to best defend them. Personally, I thought that is what caused Mariota's 2017 season to be seen as a let down.

However, I do believe that last years injury may have had a massive effect. I wondered if it had some lingering issues this year as well, but I'm not sure that it did.

[ragevsuall17]

On 1/18/2020 at 10:28 AM, TitanSS said:

You're talking about snap counts for someone who was injured almost half the season. He was paid as a situational pass rusher and that's what he was. Za'Darius Smith had 18 sacks in the 4 years prior to this year. He has lived up to the contract, but if I knew we were giving him 18m a year based on what he had previously done I would have been upset. It worked out, so it looks like a great move, but I'm not going to fault Robinson for not giving out Von MIller money to guys whose best two years were 5.5 and 8.5 sacks.

I'm not saying Wake was a great hit. I'm saying our pass rush was significantly better when he was on the field healthy. I think the intent was to use Wake as a cheap stop gap and find someone younger in the future who doesn't count for 20m against our cap when we have to pay a QB, RB, OT, and CB top dollar coming up. We rented a pretty good situational pass rusher for a year fairly cheap, and it's just unfortunate that he got hurt. It didn't work out, primarily because of the injury, but I don't think that makes it some massive gaffe for Robinson.

People are fine paying a ton for a good player, and I would have loved to have Za'Darius Smith, but one of our guys this year would be walking for sure. We're probably looking at letting Ryan and Henry walk to afford him. I would 100% be okay with that after what he did this season, but I know a lot of people here who wouldn't be, and I did not think that was a good looking contract for Green Bay prior to this season.

16M AAV... 20M cap hit is year 3...he's earned it by then or not... Cut him and sabe 10M off the cap... Year 1 call hit or 7M,year 2 of 17M...cuttable after that. 

He was one of the top FAs this past year... And it went deeper than his stats... He had some questions... Like most young players who are let to test FA after their rookie contract. 

But he's proven to be worth that contract... And Wake is a bust not only because hes only a stop gap, but because the questions some of us had about his durability at age whatever he is came to fruition. Him being hurt contributing to his limited snap count doesnt make it any better... Again when age/longevity/durability were the concerns going in. 

Whatever, it's 1 miss in an otherwise great year for JRob. 

He's got his hands full this upcoming offseason... 20+ FAs... Many of them contributors. 

I'm starting to think let Ryan go if it means picking up a top pass rusher. Conklin may price himself out too... Those are 2 guys we'd most love to have back who we may not be able to bring back. 

The only certainties are Mariota is gone, as is Woodyard. Dion, Wake, and Succop I'd say are 99% gone as they try to find money for some of the FAs. Walker is probably gone too? Maybe not but it seems he may be. Casey is a Longshot to be cut... But that's a lot of money we could save. 

Everything else is up in the air. Henry, RT, Ryan, Conklin are the priorities, probably in that order. 

Bates, Correa, Firkser, Kelley, Pruitt, Sharpe, Sims are all role players that we'd like to have back if they come affordable. 

[deeluxx3]

We neeeeeed to shore up the pass rush this offseason. Watching SF makes me so green with envy. Their DL is SPECIAL...great job by Lynch there 

Landry isn’t an impactful player. Don’t care what the hurries/sacks came out to this year...most were spot sacks and I never once watched a game and was like...damn Harold is eating today. We need to get a legit threat on the opposite side of him, as Landry is a second fiddle player to me

[TitanRedd]

2 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

We neeeeeed to shore up the pass rush this offseason. Watching SF makes me so green with envy. Their DL is SPECIAL...great job by Lynch there 

Landry isn’t an impactful player. Don’t care what the hurries/sacks came out to this year...most were spot sacks and I never once watched a game and was like...damn Harold is eating today. We need to get a legit threat on the opposite side of him, as Landry is a second fiddle player to me

I agree Landry is nothing special he’s Derrick Morgan I’m starting to sense only he can cover 

[ttitansfan4life]

This will be by far Robinson’s busiest offseason. 19 free agents is insane for one offseason. Obviously we know about the guys like Henry, Tannehill, Conklin, and Ryan but there are some solid depth pieces to me that we should resign. I’d resign Firkser, Kelly, Correa(although he could price himself out of Tennessee), and Bates and Milton who both are incredible special teams guys. Guys like Brock, Johnson, Gilbert, Fluellen, Jennings, Pamphile, Pruitt, and Sims to me are all vet minimum guys and really don’t factor much. Mariota and Woodyard both should be gone. Sharpe is a solid chain mover but with Humphries, his role is really diminished and I hope they add some speed to WR group and Tajae just isn’t that.