squire12 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I'm curious who the next highest paid #3 WR on a team is. I bet it's about about 25% of Cobb's contract next season. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/wide-receiver/ GB is 2nd in total spending at the WR position. ATL is first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, squire12 said: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/wide-receiver/ GB is 2nd in total spending at the WR position. ATL is first. So, in 2017 ATL's #3 is getting 21.5% of Cobb's salary next season. I was even too generous in my 25% guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I'm with spill on this one. I just don't see a way the team is parting with any of those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: So, in 2017 ATL's #3 is getting 21.5% of Cobb's salary next season. I was even too generous in my 25% guess Yes. And in 2019 as of now, GB is 31st in WR spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, wgbeethree said: I'm with spill on this one. I just don't see a way the team is parting with any of those guys. I think there is something to the way GB does business that those players that sign the "team friendly deal" and give some money up that they could get on the FA market get the handshake assurance that the contract will see itself to the end. IF GB were to not honor that type of agreement, it makes it that much harder to keep/attract players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, squire12 said: Yes. And in 2019 as of now, GB is 31st in WR spending. I guess I don't understand what you mean here? We don't have any WRs other than Davis under contract then. That doesn't really mean anything when discussing the roster make-up for 2018. We are all assuming in here that Adams is extended. I am arguing it will be at the expense of Cobb, others say it will be at the expense of non-WR positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, squire12 said: I think there is something to the way GB does business that those players that sign the "team friendly deal" and give some money up that they could get on the FA market get the handshake assurance that the contract will see itself to the end. IF GB were to not honor that type of agreement, it makes it that much harder to keep/attract players. The problem here is that it wasn't a team-friendly contract in hindsight. Not even remotely so. Cobb has collected over $30million from that contract (which guaranteed him $13million). I don't see how that deal would be viewed negatively by any potential future signers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: I guess I don't understand what you mean here? We don't have any WRs other than Davis under contract then. That doesn't really mean anything when discussing the roster make-up for 2018. We are all assuming in here that Adams is extended. I am arguing it will be at the expense of Cobb, others say it will be at the expense of non-WR positions. It points to the cyclical nature of positional spending. GB is high now, but will be lower half/lower third in 2 years. You structure Adams' deal to lessen the impact in 2018 and absorb more when other deals are done (Cobb, Matthews, Burnett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: The problem here is that it wasn't a team-friendly contract in hindsight. Not even remotely so. Cobb has collected over $30million from that contract (which guaranteed him $13million). I don't see how that deal would be viewed negatively by any potential future signers. Very possible, but neither of us were in the room and involved in the negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 It just makes zero sense to carry $30+ million in cap for 3 WRs in 2018. And you're not going to get Adams for under a $5million cap hit next season. It's a business and Cobb's contract was constructed with a pretty obvious out heading into 2018. Circumstances sure seem like there's no way he's going to see this last year of his contract. It would be bad business to do so (assuming Adams is retained). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Is it possible Adams isn't re-signed and GB heads into the offseason using each for leverage against the other? Absolutely. They've let guys sniff the market before, but if Adams is extended before the offseason there's no chance Cobb is back unless he and/or Jordy restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Who would ya'all rather have going forward: Randall Cobb in 2018 Morgan Burnett and Davon House in 2018 and 2019 (and maybe 2020)? Burnett + House can be had for one Cobb in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, squire12 said: I think there is something to the way GB does business that those players that sign the "team friendly deal" and give some money up that they could get on the FA market get the handshake assurance that the contract will see itself to the end. IF GB were to not honor that type of agreement, it makes it that much harder to keep/attract players. There is something to the Packers way of doing deals and Over-The- Cap wrote about it last year. https://overthecap.com/breaking-contract-structure-tendencies-styles-team-nfc-north/ Green Bay Packers GM: Ted Thompson (2005)VP of Football Administration: Russ Ball (2008) "The Packers have an established culture and strategy in their front office, with GM Ted Thompson and head cap exec Russ Ball in charge of building the roster for many years now. They have a clear philosophy of building through the draft and developing those players. Their current roster is a testament to their excellent scouting, with all of their highest-paid players being drafted by the team. It follows that all of their highest-paid players are on extensions, and there are some very consistent features amongst all of those contracts. The most common is the high signing bonuses that the Packers use, and looking at the structure of their contracts, it’s no surprise that the Packers have the highest proration ratio in the NFL. It is interesting to note that apart from Aaron Rodgers, basically all of their extensions make the signing bonus the only guaranteed portion of the contract. Clay Matthews’ five year, $66 million contract included a $20.5 million signing bonus which was the only guaranteed portion of the deal. Randall Cobb signed a four year, $40 million contract with all guarantees in the form of a $13 million signing bonus. Jordy Nelson’s signing bonus was the entire guarantee at $11.5 million of a $39.05 million deal. These signing bonuses are each roughly one-third of the total value of the contract, in contrast to the Bears who don’t have a significant signing bonus above 18% of a contract. Therefore, the Packers generally give the player a lower percentage of full guarantees, but because they come as a signing bonus, the cash is earned upfront. It is a win-win system that reflects the Packers’ philosophy of staying loyal to their homegrown talent, and the talent staying loyal to the team. Another feature that the Packers consistently use is large offseason roster bonuses in the early part of the contract. For example, Aaron Rodgers signed his extension in 2013, and had roster bonuses of $9.5 million and $10.1 million in 2014 and 2015. Clay Matthews signed in 2013 and earned a $5.4 million roster bonus on the 5th day of the 2014 League Year. Cobb signed in 2015 with a $4 million roster bonus earned at the start of the 2016 League Year. Most of the larger Green Bay deals include this feature, and it really comes down to ( ?) The Packers also maintain very low cap hits in the early stages of most of their deals, primarily because of the nature of the deals as extensions. The cap hits towards the end of the contracts are significant, and considering many are the first deal after a rookie contract, it shows the belief that the Packers have in their homegrown players. To summarize, the Packers never go shopping for big-money free agents, and have a great track record of turning some of their draft picks into upper echelon talent. They reward these homegrown players pretty well, with large signing bonuses and salaries towards the end of the deal that project the players highly. The players also seem generally loyal enough to accept relatively low guarantee percentages, to reduce the contractual risk for the team." That offers some hints on how the Packers want to structure a deal for a player they drafted and value enough to re-sign. But one thing to remember with Cobb is that he and his agent took the negotiations right up to the eve of Free Agency. At that point in time, the Packers lose some of their negotiating power and some of their ability to structure the deal exactly the way they want. Cobb allegedly took less to stay, but with so many variables, that's not easy to sort out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 @Shanedorf Thanks for sharing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 So, team saves 9.25 mil by cutting him. They can reduce his cap hit by 7 mil if they convert his salary to a signing bonus on an extension. Then they have to give a 3 year extension to cobb. Which is not something I would do. There's so many WR in free agency this season... I'm ready to make a push for Larry Fitz on a "get a ring deal" before we stick with Cobb for 2018. Adams has me less worried now than before the season. He's continuing to grow. He's obviously not worth tip top money, but it's getting pretty close and he's surpassed Jordy as the toughest cover for opposing teams IMO. Well, outside of the RZ where the telepathy with Rodgers isn't quite there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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