Bold prediction: Jared Goff will be benched!

[Jlowe22]

10 minutes ago, N4L said:

was brees getting paid 36 million during these years? That's what Goff will be paid next year and then its basically 30m a year after that. 

Whether or not he's overpaid is one thing, but benching him is very premature.

[ILoveTheVikings]

22 minutes ago, VanS said:

In terms of talent?  Absolutely.  Watson has a bigger arm and is significantly more athletic.  When you consider intangibles, Watson is right there.  Only difference is Watson holds onto the ball too long which leads to more hits and ultimately makes him less durable.  In terms of pure talent he's better.  Its why he went in the 1st round while Brady lasted till the 6th.

With that said, lots of QBs have been more talented than Brady.  Even he would admit that.  And Belichek definitely knows that which is why he never pays Brady top dollar.

But now you've shifted the goal posts. My post wasn't about "talent" or "upside" I even underlined what I was talking about. 

Quote

Watson with Belichek he would have just as much (if not more) success as Brady.

You, right there, said Watson would have had at minimum the same success Brady has if he had Bill Belichick. You, right there, just said that Watson would have accomplished more then any other QB in NFL history if only he had Bill.

That is absurd on *SO* many levels. 

[Soko]

13 minutes ago, ILoveTheVikings said:

But now you've shifted the goal posts. My post wasn't about "talent" or "upside" I even underlined what I was talking about. 

You, right there, said Watson would have had at minimum the same success Brady has if he had Bill Belichick. You, right there, just said that Watson would have accomplished more then any other QB in NFL history if only he had Bill.

That is absurd on *SO* many levels. 

Even the shifted goal posts don’t make sense. Physical talent at the QB position has never consistently been an indicator for success at the QB position.

Cam Newton is more athletic and has a bigger arm than Drew Brees. Mike Vick was more athletic and had a bigger arm than Peyton Manning. Jamarcus Russell was more athletic and had a bigger arm than Tom Brady. Randall Cunningham was more athletic and had a bigger arm than Joe Montana.

It’s a cop out. He won’t say Watson>Brady, but he’ll say Watson’s hypothetical accomplishments with Bill>Brady’s GOAT accomplishments with Bill. He’ll say Watson’s talent>Brady’s talent. Just won’t give us the clincher.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Yin-Yang

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Goff's last 14 games

8-6 record, 3,580 yards, 59.8% completion rate, 14 TDs, 15 INTs, 77.0 passer rating

 

14 games before that

12-2 record, 4,227 yards, 65.6% completion rate, 33 TDs, 7 INTs, 109.7 passe rating

 

Arbitrary cut-off, right after his fantastic KC game, just fascinating that you can even create a split like this that spans multiple seasons for any QB. We've seen guys, like Foles, where you can compare 1 year to the other and see a similar disparity, but there it's easy to say new year new team, DCs figured out the offense, etc. Goff has thrown less than half as many TDs, and over twice as many INTs in these 2 stretches. At this point it seems everything is going wrong for the offense. Goff struggling, Gurley being dead, McVay slipping, OL failing, all of that is contributing to this absolute tank in passing productivity. What's surprising is the winning record in lieu of it.

[El Ramster]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mattwaldman/status/1183751439199420419?s=21

[LeotheLion]

2 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

What's surprising is the winning record in lieu of it.

It's surprising when looking at the numbers as a whole but not when examining each game. The games when Goff has been awful he's been really awful that he crippled the offense (Bears, Pats, 49ers). The other games have been somewhere between mediocre to great but the offense was still able to put up points. 

[VanS]

38 minutes ago, ILoveTheVikings said:

But now you've shifted the goal posts. My post wasn't about "talent" or "upside" I even underlined what I was talking about. 

You, right there, said Watson would have had at minimum the same success Brady has if he had Bill Belichick. You, right there, just said that Watson would have accomplished more then any other QB in NFL history if only he had Bill.

That is absurd on *SO* many levels. 

You only call it absurb cause we can't run the simulation to see what would happen if you gave Watson (or any other supremely talented QB) Belichek for his entire career.   If Matt Cassel can go 11-5 with Belichek, I'm sure Watson could win one additional game and get the Patriots to 12-4 which is pretty much what the Patriots average with Brady every year.  I don't think its controversial to say Watson can win one more game a season than Matt Cassel.

You can get fooled by team accomplishments all you want when it comes to rating individual players.  That's not something I do.  I look solely at a player's individual talent when rating them as a player.   I don't give guys more credit because they have great teammates and coaches helping them.

Edited October 15, 2019 by VanS

[Elky]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

In terms of talent?  Absolutely.  Watson has a bigger arm and is significantly more athletic.  When you consider intangibles, Watson is right there.  Only difference is Watson holds onto the ball too long which leads to more hits and ultimately makes him less durable.  In terms of pure talent he's better.  Its why he went in the 1st round while Brady lasted till the 6th.

With that said, lots of QBs have been more talented than Brady.  Even he would admit that.  And Belichek definitely knows that which is why he never pays Brady top dollar.

Holy **** you're logic is garbage. JaMarcus Russell must have had more talent because he went in the first.

[Jlowe22]

 

19 minutes ago, VanS said:

You only call it absurb cause we can't run the simulation to see what would happen if you gave Watson (or any other supremely talented QB) Belichek for his entire career.   If Matt Cassel can go 11-5 with Belichek, I'm sure Watson could win one additional game and get the Patriots to 12-4 which is pretty much what the Patriots average with Brady every year.  I don't think its controversial to say Watson can win one more game a season than Matt Cassel.

You can get fooled by team accomplishments all you want when it comes to rating individual players.  That's not something I do.  I look solely at a player's individual talent when rating them as a player.   I don't give guys more credit because they have great teammates and coaches helping them.

Thing is, QB position is dominated by mental acuity.  Talent doesn't mean much by itself.  Every 1st round draft pick is talented, very few become elite QBs.  And even fewer are gonna win 6 superbowls, if for no other reason than they will not stay good enough for long enough.  

[jrry32]

9 hours ago, Gmen said:

I think @jrry32 jinxed his boy. It’s been all downhill since he created that thread on November 20th. 

Don't throw stones in Daniel Jones' glass house.

[VanS]

2 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

 

Thing is, QB position is dominated by mental acuity.  Talent doesn't mean much by itself.  Every 1st round draft pick is talented, very few become elite QBs.  And even fewer are gonna win 6 superbowls, if for no other reason than they will not stay good enough for long enough.  

Mental acuity isn't a problem for Deshaun Watson.   

Once again: If Matt Cassel can win 11 games with Belichek, I'm sure Watson could win 12 (which is what Brady averages).

Coaching has played a significant part in Brady's success whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

[VanS]

3 hours ago, Elky said:

Holy **** you're logic is garbage. JaMarcus Russell must have had more talent because he went in the first.

Jamarcus Russell's problem was that he didn't love the game.  He loved what the game gave him.  So once he got that big rookie contract he stopped trying.  Poor intangibles can destroy even the most talented player.

As far as I can tell intangibles aren't an issue for Deshaun Watson.

[Elky]

5 hours ago, VanS said:

Jamarcus Russell's problem was that he didn't love the game.  He loved what the game gave him.  So once he got that big rookie contract he stopped trying.  Poor intangibles can destroy even the most talented player.

As far as I can tell intangibles aren't an issue for Deshaun Watson.

So now we're going to play the intangibles game, an area absolutely no one touches Brady at.

[Gmen]

7 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Don't throw stones in Daniel Jones' glass house.

That’s it!? That’s the only response to this thread? November 20th you wouldn’t trade Goff for anyone - even for Mahomes. You gotta stand up for your boy. Start throwing the coaching staff and teammates under the bus. Pulling out obscure situational stats nobody has heard of like BPM/YAC../RPG. Blaming the refs! This smearing of the Great Goff cannot stand! Sue somebody!!! Where’s that fire jrry is known for!????

Edited October 15, 2019 by Gmen

[Jlowe22]

7 hours ago, VanS said:

Mental acuity isn't a problem for Deshaun Watson.   

Once again: If Matt Cassel can win 11 games with Belichek, I'm sure Watson could win 12 (which is what Brady averages).

Coaching has played a significant part in Brady's success whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

No, Belichick played a huge part in the Patriots success.  That 07 squad was so good, it would have taken a bad QB to not win games in 08.

But that doesn’t mean a more talented QB could replace everything Brady has done.  The mental aspect is the most important part of the game, and Brady is far and above just about everyone else there.

It’s why 3 of your 4 best QBs of the past generation were Peyton, Brady, and Brees.  All three were smart and had elite accuracy.  Traits that matter the most.

Watson might be on that level, but he’s got to show it over a long career.  Plenty of guys have peaked for a season or two, it’s not enough to claim better than Brady.