Bolts223 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Basically if you could only have one: Would you rather have Peak Rodgers/Brady/Peak Steve Young/Mahomes/Peyton Manning etc or would you rather have Bill Belichick/Joe Gibbs/Vince Lombardi/Don Shula/Bill Walsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duluther Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Elite HC. No question. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I think to answer this question, you have to look back at a case where you could clearly see that you had one without the other. so Brady/Belichick can't be used as a basis here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Duluther said: Elite HC. No question. Absolutely 1000%. Football is much more coaching than playing than most of these fans realize. It’s the ultimate strategy sport. Starcraft/Chess of sports. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Prince Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 HC, no question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 HC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Well Joe Gibbs won SBs with 3 different QBs, none of which were particularly amazing. Although I would argue the QB position has become even more important in the current era. Aaron Rodgers dragged Mike McCarthy to a SB. In the current era where QBs are expected to throw 5k yards a year I would probably lean towards wanting an elite QB more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Well Joe Gibbs won SBs with 3 different QBs, none of which were particularly amazing. Although I would argue the QB position has become even more important in the current era. Aaron Rodgers dragged Mike McCarthy to a SB. In the current era where QBs are expected to throw 5k yards a year I would probably lean towards wanting an elite QB more. I'm not saying that Aaron Rodgers didn't play well in that postseason, because he absolutely did. But the 2010 Packers had an elite defense that played extremely well in the playoffs. The Eagles/Bears games were defensive battles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bolts223 said: I'm not saying that Aaron Rodgers didn't play well in that postseason, because he absolutely did. But the 2010 Packers had an elite defense that played extremely well in the playoffs. The Eagles/Bears games were defensive battles. Ok answer this. Is Mike McCarthy an elite coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Ok answer this. Is Mike McCarthy an elite coach? That's not the point of what I was saying. I'm saying that saying Aaron Rodgers carried that team to a SB is incorrect. If you wanted to say an overall loaded Packers team carried a McCarthy to a SB that would be accurate. Edit: I also think McCarthy gets hated on a bit more than he deserves. Back in 2010 I think he was one of the better coaches in the league. Not elite, but pretty good. Edited October 16, 2019 by Bolts223 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, MKnight82 said: Ok answer this. Is Mike McCarthy an elite coach? No but his offensive play calling was really good back in the 2007-2012 days before he became repetitive and easy to game plan for. He single handedly revived Favres career in 07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Just now, Bolts223 said: That's not the point of what I was saying. I'm saying that saying Aaron Rodgers carried that team to a SB is incorrect. If you wanted to say an overall loaded Packers team carried a McCarthy to a SB that would be accurate. But the whole point of the thread is elite QB vs elite HC. Aaron Rodgers is an elite QB. Mike McCarthy is not an elite HC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 Just now, MKnight82 said: But the whole point of the thread is elite QB vs elite HC. Aaron Rodgers is an elite QB. Mike McCarthy is not an elite HC. I know. I'm saying that an elite QB like Aaron Rodgers did not carry that team to a SB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Well Joe Gibbs won SBs with 3 different QBs, none of which were particularly amazing. Although I would argue the QB position has become even more important in the current era. Aaron Rodgers dragged Mike McCarthy to a SB. In the current era where QBs are expected to throw 5k yards a year I would probably lean towards wanting an elite QB more. This is what I came to say. Also, other than Joe Gibbs, how many of the top coaches of all time won SBs with mediocre QB play? I think you would have to go back a ways to find them. And yet there are recent examples of all-time great QBs winning SBs with good but not elite coaching. Manning with Colts, Rodgers with McCarthy, arguably Brees with Payton. So yeah, I think the game changing to promote the passing game more has tilted the scales in the QB's direction a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, childofpudding said: This is what I came to say. Also, other than Joe Gibbs, how many of the top coaches of all time won SBs with mediocre QB play? I think you would have to go back a ways to find them. And yet there are recent examples of all-time great QBs winning SBs with good but not elite coaching. Manning with Colts, Rodgers with McCarthy, arguably Brees with Payton. So yeah, I think the game changing to promote the passing game more has tilted the scales in the QB's direction a bit. - Problem with saying Manning with the Colts is it's not like Manning even played well in that postseason. It was Dungy's defense that won a low scoring 15-6 game against the Ravens. Problem is that the only head coach of the last 20 years that I truly consider elite is Bill Belichick. The other top coaches of that time period like Cowher, both Harbaughs, Pete Carroll, Reid, etc I all consider to be very good head coaches but not "elite." What I will say about Belichick is that I don't really consider 2001 Brady an elite QB yet. He was absolutely clutch, but he's a million times better now than he was then. I would argue the 2001 Patriots are a team that won with elite coaching but not elite QB play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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