Trade Deadline Discussion

[topwop1]

3 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Do not trade for a big money QB we need the cap space.

QBs I would call about

Teddy Bridgewater, I expect they hang up.

Nick Mullins

Cooper Rush, Dallas.

Josh Rosen, only if it is a cheap pick swap

Teddy Bridgewater is going to be a big money QB after this season...you can take that to the bank.

What exactly do we need the cap space for though if not for a new QB... because at this point in the season I am not willing to bet that guys like Eddie Jackson deserve an early extension next off season.

[Nads786]

24 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Teddy Bridgewater is going to be a big money QB after this season...you can take that to the bank.

What exactly do we need the cap space for though if not for a new QB... because at this point in the season I am not willing to bet that guys like Eddie Jackson deserve an early extension next off season.

Agreed. We should be going for Foles and then draft a QB next year.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

He isn't making $22 mil in 2020.  He's making about $16 mil.  Roughly $6 mil of his cap hit is the amortization of his signing bonus.

This year his base is only $5 mil which would be prorated based on the number of games left.  Then JAX swallows his $25 mil signing bonus and we're on the hook for roughly $20-$25 mil of additional salary guarantees.  This is how it breaks down.

Current Contract

Nick Foles signed a 4 year, $88,000,000 contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars, including a $25,000,000 signing bonus, $50,125,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $22,000,000. In 2019, Foles will earn a base salary of $5,000,000, a signing bonus of $25,000,000, a roster bonus of $500,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $12,000,000 and a dead cap value of $45,375,000.

Contract Terms: 4 yr(s) / $88,000,000

Signing Bonus $25,000,000

Average Salary$22,000,000

GTD at Sign:$45,125,000

Total GTD:$50,125,000

Free Agent:2023 /

				Bonus Breakdown			Cap Details		Cash Details
Year		Age	Base Salary	Signing	Roster	Workout	Cap Hit	Dead Cap	Yearly Cash
2019		30	$5,000,000	$6,250,000	$500,000	$250,000	$12,000,000	$45,375,000	$30,750,000($30,750,000)
2020		31	$15,125,000	$6,250,000	$500,000	$250,000	$22,125,000	$33,875,000	$15,875,000($46,625,000)
Potential Out: 2021, 2 yr, $46,625,000; $12,500,000 dead cap
2021		32	$14,875,000	$6,250,000	$5,500,000	$250,000	$26,875,000	$12,500,000	$20,625,000($67,250,000)
2022		33	$20,000,000	$6,250,000	$500,000	$250,000	$27,000,000	$6,250,000	$20,750,000($88,000,000)
2023		34

 

In 2020 his cap hit is $15.875 mil

In 2021 it's $20.625

In 2022 it's $20.750

Considering that top tier starters are getting in excess of $30 mil per year that's not a bad deal if he works out and we keep Trubisky through 2020 at a salary of just $735k and unless he surpasses Foles we don't pick up his 5th year option but may sign him for another year for far less.

If Trubisky does get his **** together and surpasses Foles his $45.125 mil guaranteed money will be paid out after the 2020 season so we're off the hook with zero dead cap after that and we sign Trubisky long term in 2021 or 2022.   We need Foles or someone like him to compete.

I thought half the signing bonus was paid up front and the rest put in escrow paid out in each season, so whoever owns his rights pays that. Is it really going to all still be on the Jags to pay that bonus? And I thought that would still count against the cap, or would JAX have the signing bonus on their books and we pay the rest? Honestly asking. 

What top end starters makes is irrelevant though, Foles is a top end back up, bottom end starter. $16 is still more than he would be worth IMO. All that will do is force Chicago to a later draft slot with still a below average offense, and a defense that is beginning to age or have FAs leave. The limited stretches Foles had was with a far better cast than what Chicago has and much better offensive minds than what Nagy has shown to be (so far of course, he could still improve).

Why would Tru re-sign with Chicago at all? Realistically he has not been developed here, dealt with fans that genuinely have disliked him since he was drafted, and he is being looked to be replaced here in these scenarios amd likely in Halas Hall. It would be far better to go to somewhere and have a real OC to work with him and attempt to salvage his career. If i was him I'd try to look at NE, KC, and NO to see if they want a cheap back up. There is no pressure to start there and he gets to learn behind a real franchise QB and offensive mind.

[soulman]

10 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I thought half the signing bonus was paid up front and the rest put in escrow paid out in each season, so whoever owns his rights pays that. Is it really going to all still be on the Jags to pay that bonus? And I thought that would still count against the cap, or would JAX have the signing bonus on their books and we pay the rest? Honestly asking. 

What top end starters makes is irrelevant though, Foles is a top end back up, bottom end starter. $16 is still more than he would be worth IMO. All that will do is force Chicago to a later draft slot with still a below average offense, and a defense that is beginning to age or have FAs leave. The limited stretches Foles had was with a far better cast than what Chicago has and much better offensive minds than what Nagy has shown to be (so far of course, he could still improve).

Why would Tru re-sign with Chicago at all? Realistically he has not been developed here, dealt with fans that genuinely have disliked him since he was drafted, and he is being looked to be replaced here in these scenarios amd likely in Halas Hall. It would be far better to go to somewhere and have a real OC to work with him and attempt to salvage his career. If i was him I'd try to look at NE, KC, and NO to see if they want a cheap back up. There is no pressure to start there and he gets to learn behind a real franchise QB and offensive mind.

That's a common arrangement in some deals but it's the team who grants the SB who pays it.  The escrow if used is simply a device for assuring payment of sums delayed to avoid heavier initial taxation.  Any unamortized bonus money is rolled into the original teams cap in the year the trade/cut is made or perhaps the following if it's a mid year trade.  That I can't say for sure.  Only the future salary and/or roster bonus guarantees pass along to the new team.  So no matter what JAX is on the hook for that $25 mil signing bonus.

I will respectfully disagree that a QB whose recently won a Super Bowl and has a 65.6% W/L record playing in Philly would be seen as a bottom end starter.  But I'm not so much lobbying for Foles as pointing out his cost and also saying if not Mitch then who and I think you can admit that Foles name will surely come up in any discussion about a vet who can replace Daniel and is good enough to go head to head with Mitch for the #1 spot.  IMHO we'd be winning these games we're losing if Foles was currently our starter.

As for the last paragraph again with respect I'm gonna call it pure speculation and personal opinion.  Fans have not genuinely disliked him but the media has unfairly compared him to Mahomes who wasn't required to start under a HC like John Fox as a rookie. And how can you claim a guy who helped develop Alex Smith into a winning NFL passer has not taken an interest and an active role in developing him along with Helfrich and Ragone whose name is now on some short lists for an OC job.  Come on brother, that's a weak argument.

My point was that we would already have Mitch under contract cheap for 2020 when the competition for the #1 spot takes place so whether you have a $16 mil starter and a $735k #2 or vice versa the costs are the same either way and someone establishes himself as the likely starter for 2021 at which time Mitch will be a FA but Foles will still be under contract through 2022 and could be traded again with no dead cap hit if Trubisky wins the competition and we elect to re-sign him. 

It's all about fixing a current problem with affordable options and letting it play out during 2020.  You know by now we're gonna have to do something and that Daniel is not an answer beyond this year.  We're paying him $6 mil now and that will go away so the net cost to the cap of adding a guy like Foles is actually about $10 mil.  If I can can bring in any vet with his credentials to compete with Mitch for a net $10 mil cap hit lead me to him.  It doesn't have to be Foles it just has to be someone who has starters credentials and a winning record.

[abstract_thought]

What would it take to deal for Mariota? He seems like the ideal candidate who offers enough upside to warrant a tryout but enough downside to be cheap both now and next season.

[beardown3231]

15 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

What would it take to deal for Mariota? He seems like the ideal candidate who offers enough upside to warrant a tryout but enough downside to be cheap both now and next season.

Hopefully a 27th round pick

[Sugashane]

49 minutes ago, soulman said:

That's a common arrangement in some deals but it's the team who grants the SB who pays it.  The escrow if used is simply a device for assuring payment of sums delayed to avoid heavier initial taxation.  Any unamortized bonus money is rolled into the original teams cap in the year the trade/cut is made or perhaps the following if it's a mid year trade.  That I can't say for sure.  Only the future salary and/or roster bonus guarantees pass along to the new team.  So no matter what JAX is on the hook for that $25 mil signing bonus.

I will respectfully disagree that a QB whose recently won a Super Bowl and has a 65.6% W/L record playing in Philly would be seen as a bottom end starter.  But I'm not so much lobbying for Foles as pointing out his cost and also saying if not Mitch then who and I think you can admit that Foles name will surely come up in any discussion about a vet who can replace Daniel and is good enough to go head to head with Mitch for the #1 spot.  IMHO we'd be winning these games we're losing if Foles was currently our starter.

As for the last paragraph again with respect I'm gonna call it pure speculation and personal opinion.  Fans have not genuinely disliked him but the media has unfairly compared him to Mahomes who wasn't required to start under a HC like John Fox as a rookie. And how can you claim a guy who helped develop Alex Smith into a winning NFL passer has not taken an interest and an active role in developing him along with Helfrich and Ragone whose name is now on some short lists for an OC job.  Come on brother, that's a weak argument.

My point was that we would already have Mitch under contract cheap for 2020 when the competition for the #1 spot takes place so whether you have a $16 mil starter and a $735k #2 or vice versa the costs are the same either way and someone establishes himself as the likely starter for 2021 at which time Mitch will be a FA but Foles will still be under contract through 2022 and could be traded again with no dead cap hit if Trubisky wins the competition and we elect to re-sign him. 

It's all about fixing a current problem with affordable options and letting it play out during 2020.  You know by now we're gonna have to do something and that Daniel is not an answer beyond this year.  We're paying him $6 mil now and that will go away so the net cost to the cap of adding a guy like Foles is actually about $10 mil.  If I can can bring in any vet with his credentials to compete with Mitch for a net $10 mil cap hit lead me to him.  It doesn't have to be Foles it just has to be someone who has starters credentials and a winning record.

Thanks for explaining the signing bonus to me, I thought the new team took that responsibility on for that. But you're saying Tru is making under $800k, is that solely just new money as his bonus has already been paid into escrow? Because I thought the signing bonus would still count against the salary cap. Idc if Chicago has or will pay, I'm just interested in what money is available to get talent in the holes we have, so that makes a big difference in what money is available. 

We stats can disagree on Foles, that is fine. I just feel that his one big year in PHI has really skewed people's perception of him. Take that one season out and he almost has a losing record for his career. That season to me is a fluke like McCown having the 13/1 statline. He may be able to beat out Tru, but that doesn't scream out much to me. He had much better talent and coaching in PHI than he has here. 

I disagree again, the fans as a whole were let down with his pick. He was booed loudly at a Bulls game before even getting a single snap for Chicago, that didn't happen to Mahomes and Watson near at the level it did here. Now was he universally hated or at the time hated lime Grossman and Cutler were? No, not at all, and if I inferred that then that is my bad. Is it completely fair to compare the three? Yes and no for me. He had a worse situation his rookie year of course but they added talent and he has simply not been very good outside of a small stretch. Watson has played better with a worse OL, Mahomes IMO never would have sniffed an MVP here last year but would have been significantly better than Tru. Its specualtion but Tru has failed miserably this year, not always on his own but he misses enough easy plays that it's difficult to excuse in any manner. But this is the pros, and Tru has not elevated his teammate or consistently even put up points. He shouldn't get a pass for failing there, especially if Watson and Mahomes have done one or both. 

I've never said Nagy wasn't taking an active role, I was arguing that he tried and he has simply failed. I cant think of a counter to that, the offense is putrid. Even a day or two ago someone said developing Tru wasn't a primary concern for Nagy because they are in win-now mode and I argued it absolutely was, he just had not been able to do it. 

Ragone can be on whatever short list, but he hasn't earned it here. Helfrich had success in college but has done nothing here. Maybe he is not cut out for it ot maybe Nagy has restricted him, Idk and I don't really care. There simply has not been worthwhile results. Tru still has poor mechanics way too often, misses too many easy passes, and regardless of it being by design or not the offense is too conservative to be successful. What has Ragone or Helfrich done in Chicago of note? I literally see nothing. As for developing Smith and Mahomes I attribute that to Reid far more than Nagy. McNabb had good stretches, Vick made his best stretch as a passer under Reid, Foles had a massive stretch, etc. Most signs point toward Reid than Nagy and Co IMO, because they have had Tru for almost a year and a half and he is regressing badly. The offense as a whole is embarrassing. 

It may cost the same but the return on each is different. $16 mil to hold a clipboard is an absolute waste, but if he is starting then it becomes more reasonable. I'm more concerned about ROI for each deal, not saying X amount is tied up in this position group. Also with Daniel (who was simply a bad signing at that price) already off the books in 2020 it is a moot point what he made. Foles would be $16 mil regardless, taking up the same amount regardless of what someone made the previous year. 

If Nagy wants Foles then I say go after him, but Nagy's contract becomes tied to Foles. If the offense is crap in 2020, then remove both. He was brought here to develop Tru and create an offensive system to allow us to put up points and has failed miserably at both. If he wants to pick his guy in the draft, let him, if there is a vet that can be had at a reasonable price, get him. Quit letting Nagy make his generic excuses and half-assed promises and make him either sink or swim. Don't waste time with a dead fish coach. Hire a new HC and if he wants to pick his own guy them do it and let the two young guys fight for it. The QB position HAS to be fixed to have any long term success. But we need to see if Nagy is able to do that or not. 

[Epyon]

Kyle Lauletta is the guy i go for immediately.... he won't immediately replace Mitch, but he's free (on a practice squad atm) and at least is a potential developmental guy who had an alright pre-draft process.

He can't start right away and who the hell knows if he can end up outplaying Chase or even Mitch.... but he's at least an unknown quantity rather than a known player who can't hack it, like Daniels, Bray, and now apparently Trubs.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Thanks for explaining the signing bonus to me, I thought the new team took that responsibility on for that. But you're saying Tru is making under $800k, is that solely just new money as his bonus has already been paid into escrow? Because I thought the signing bonus would still count against the salary cap. Idc if Chicago has or will pay, I'm just interested in what money is available to get talent in the holes we have, so that makes a big difference in what money is available. 

Lemme deal with just the cap issues so we can at least focus on affordability.

Mitch received his signing bonus after his signing in 2017.  No matter how he receives it (cash or annual installments) it's treated the same for cap purposes and amortized over the life of the contract which in this case is 4 years.  So SB = $19.25449 mil/4 = $4.813622 mil each year is charged to his cap cost + his annual salary which in 2020 is $735k.

Looking more carefully I notice that he does also have a 2020 guaranteed roster bonus of $3.688967 I missed and for that I apologize.  Too much multi tasking today.  So his cash cost in 2021 is actually $4.423967 mil (about what a vet backup could make) and his total cap cost with his $4.813622 SB added is $9.237591.  The signing bonus is already sunken cost paid or escrowed at signing.

So to be 100% accurate now that I've corrected my numbers if we added Foles and his $15.875 mil cap hit to Mitch's 2020 cap hit the two QBs are costing us roughly $25 mil and change against the cap and roughly $20 mil in cash.  This year Mitch and Daniel are costing us roughly $14 mil against the cap but in 2020 Daniel's $6 mil would be gone which would help us to absorb some of the increased hit for Foles and the QB position in general.  That's the price we may have to pay when our prize rookie is on the verge of failing to deliver.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

We stats can disagree on Foles, that is fine. I just feel that his one big year in PHI has really skewed people's perception of him. Take that one season out and he almost has a losing record for his career. That season to me is a fluke like McCown having the 13/1 statline. He may be able to beat out Tru, but that doesn't scream out much to me. He had much better talent and coaching in PHI than he has here. 

OK, now let's analyze Foles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FoleNi00.htm

Look at his record in Philly.  His only struggle was in 2012 his rookie season when he went 1-5 in 6 starts.  Overall he's 21-11 is 5 seasons which means he's been 20-6 in the other four and 4-2 in the playoffs with a SB MVP Trophy.  How does that equate to only one good year?  His career record is 26-19 bogged down by a 4-7 year on a 7-9 2015 Rams team so he's nowhere near having a losing record for his career.  Shane, there are no flukes here like you believe there are.  He's been a pretty solid QB his entire career.

I can't even comment on talent and coaching in Philly vs here because 1) it's subjective, and 2) I don't believe it.  We were a "double doink" away from beating them in January in a playoff game and both Nagy and Pederson coached under Andy Reid with Nagy taking over for Pederson.  Sorry bro but you're really clutching at straws here trying to prove a point and I can't even come close to agreeing with you.

"He may be able to beat out Tru, but that doesn't scream out much to me."

Isn't that why we'd trade for him?  He's either gotta push the hell out of him and lose or he wins and becomes #1.  Foles may be about as good as you could hope to get but since he's under contract with JAX that may not even be possible.  Despite that if we're looking we may as well begin with the best QB we could realistically hope for and given that realistic may not even be true.

Who would you propose?  Rodger?  Brady? Goff? Garoppolo (wish we had him)?  I just picked the same guy others have and one whose not only a proven winner but has also played in a similar system.  It's almost to perfect which is why it's also unlikely JAX would ever trade him especially when they've had their own issue at QB and they only just signed him this year.  Plus he's on IR.

IMHO we might as well get ready to begin going through this process because sure as God made little green apples we're gonna be on a search for another QB to replace Daniel and compete with Mitch.  Anyone who believes that kid is gonna go from the guy with a whipped dog look on his face Sunday to a world beater or even half way decent over the next few games is dreaming.

If he doesn't even believe in himself right now, and as Nagy pointed out today his mechanics are failing him due to that and other factors how in the blue hell can we believe in him right now or expect his teammates to?  I believe that as a team everyone has to play better than they have and I also believe most will except for Mitch.  He needs to be sat down and chilled out for a few games.

Then start him again and see what happens but for God's sake Pace needs to begin his moves toward another QB now because even expecting Mitch to become competent again is becoming a stretch and you can forget about top tier franchise guy.  If that ever happens it will be because Nagy can walk on water.  The kid simply lacks the toughness and focus needed to become one.

[soulman]

As for the rest Shane all I would be doing is repeating what I have before.  IMHO the only talent we seem to be lacking is at TE and QB.  We are nowhere near playoff caliber at either position right now.  The rest of the team is very solid albeit hurt by some key injuries.

Personally I don't feel this season can be salvaged so I'm focused on doing whatever we can to salvage something out of Mitch in hope that Nagy can learn to walk on water or at the very least turn Mitch into another Alex Smith game manager with some mobility.

If we're gonna look at inexperienced rookies as some suggest then sign one or trade for one now so we can at least evaluate him before next spring when we can become more serious about the available vets out there and bring one of them in as well.

But I gotta say that my opinion of our ability to judge QB talent and develop it has hit another low point which is why with the defense we have and the short but open window it's time to end any experimenting and find a solution fast.

[abstract_thought]

Money is the biggest issue with Foles and it's tough to work around. The Bears have serious salary cap limitations and adding Foles will only further complicate the finances. They need to focus on guys who don't/won't cost much.

[Sugashane]

40 minutes ago, soulman said:

Lemme deal with just the cap issues so we can at least focus on affordability.

 

Hey I'm happy you're taking the time to show me some things on this. I really do appreciate it. This is a bit more complicated than how I do my bids for my job. Lol

That posts makes perfect sense to me now, I was confused on where our numbers were so different for Tru, but I'm good now  

10 minutes ago, soulman said:

OK, now let's analyze Foles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FoleNi00.htm

Look at his record in Philly.  His only struggle was in 2012 his rookie season when he went 1-5 in 6 starts.  Overall he's 21-11 is 5 seasons which means he's been 20-6 in the other four and 4-2 in the playoffs with a SB MVP Trophy.  How does that equate to only one good year?  His career record is 26-19 bogged down by a 4-7 year on a 7-9 2015 Rams team so he's nowhere near having a losing record for his career.  Shane, there are no flukes here like you believe there are.  He's been a pretty solid QB his entire career.

I can't even comment on talent and coaching in Philly vs here because 1) it's subjective, and 2) I don't believe it.  We were a "double doink" away from beating them in January in a playoff game and both Nagy and Pederson coached under Andy Reid with Nagy taking over for Pederson.  Sorry bro but you're really clutching at straws here trying to prove a point and I can't even come close to agreeing with you.

"He may be able to beat out Tru, but that doesn't scream out much to me."

Isn't that why we'd trade for him?  He's either gotta push the hell out of him and lose or he wins and becomes #1.  Foles may be about as good as you could hope to get but since he's under contract with JAX that may not even be possible.  Despite that if we're looking we may as well begin with the best QB we could realistically hope for and given that realistic may not even be true.

Who would you propose?  Rodger?  Brady? Goff? Garoppolo (wish we had him)?  I just picked the same guy others have and one whose not only a proven winner but has also played in a similar system.  It's almost to perfect which is why it's also unlikely JAX would ever trade him especially when they've had their own issue at QB and they only just signed him this year.  Plus he's on IR.

IMHO we might as well get ready to begin going through this process because sure as God made little green apples we're gonna be on a search for another QB to replace Daniel and compete with Mitch.  Anyone who believes that kid is gonna go from the guy with a whipped dog look on his face Sunday to a world beater or even half way decent over the next few games is dreaming.

If he doesn't even believe in himself right now, and as Nagy pointed out today his mechanics are failing him due to that and other factors how in the blue hell can we believe in him right now or expect his teammates to?  I believe that as a team everyone has to play better than they have and I also believe most will except for Mitch.  He needs to be sat down and chilled out for a few games.

Then start him again and see what happens but for God's sake Pace needs to begin his moves toward another QB now because even expecting Mitch to become competent again is becoming a stretch and you can forget about top tier franchise guy.  If that ever happens it will be because Nagy can walk on water.  The kid simply lacks the toughness and focus needed to become one.

I see our disconnect. By fluke I was speaking of his production. He has a ridiculous year in 2013. A 28/2 TD/INT ratio absolutely is a fluke, and there is no denying that. That was an aberration that he never came close to replicating. Win loss record is a team deal, Tru has a 14 and 5 record under Nagy. But he was not the catalyst for the majority of those wins. That's why win/loss is a statistic I don't look at as much. And to be fair I said "taking that one season out" in which his regular season record drops to 18-17. That absolutely is near a losing record, like I said. If we also want to take out his worst year (to take the two extremes out) then you get a 17-12 record when you remove his rookie year. Still below Tru. But I agree he is a better passer, and would add a win or two more than Tru most likely. 

I'm not clutching at straws at all. Nagy's offenses have been pathetic with plenty of talent around. Pederson had a more consistent offense, Nagy beat up on bad defenses after a poor start and was crap for the last 5 last year, and has been pretty damn bad this year too. As for talent, I don't see how you can argue that they are similar or worse than Chicago. Ertz vs Burton - Ertz by a mile. Jeffery vs Robinson - I'd go Robinson honestly. Agholor (sp?) vs Gabriel - Agholor. Goedert vs Shaheen - Goedert. Tate vs Miller - I'd give that to Miller last year, but this year Tate has been much better, maybe Miller had an aberration but I hope he bounce back. The OL was Peters, Johnson, Kelce, Brooks and someone I'm forgetting, but that beats out OL even with Long when he wasn't a corpse last year. Pederson has a Super Bowl to his name, if that is going to be validation for Foles then it is clearly a point that he gets to note. He was the one directing the offense that Foles had success in. Nagy is heading the abortion we are seeing. Double Doink might have missed the final field goal, but that pathetic offensove effort and gameplan had him as the only person putting points on the board. The offense had a single TD that game under Nagy. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. For offensive coaching  Wentz has been a hot name for MVP, Foles has been a Super Bowl MVP, and Tru has been an undeserved Pro Bowl Alternate and now looking at potentially being benched in favor of Chase Daniel. I see little in Chicago's favor bud. 

I said I'd be fine with Nagy betting on Foles. I don't think much of him overall but if Nagy has to put up or shut up and stop making excuses for his offensive failures. And by all means if they make me eat my words I'd be ecstatic, I'm just giving my opinion on him. 

I prefer Nagy and Pace gamble on a kid that Nagy toes himself to. Putting up more than 12 PPG whatever the offense has averaged the last 11 games shouldn't be hard (maybe his garbage time points Sunday might bump that up), and Nagy is supposed to be able to develop QBs. Let him prove he can. If Nagy wants Foles though, go for it. But Tru needs to be done and put on a reserve role if so. Nagy has to take a stand and plant his flag, so to speak. I think the Tru experiment has failed and we need to move on.

My rationale with Foles was that he isn't going to fix the horrid run blocking. He isn't going to get the pocket that PHI routinely gave him, etc. But with a rookie you might be able to take advantage of the extra cap to improve the OL or TE. Foles is going to need better than what Burton is offering, though maybe he gets back to form. But if Nagy and Pace choose him, then I'm all for it and I'll root like hell for him. 

[Sugashane]

53 minutes ago, soulman said:

As for the rest Shane all I would be doing is repeating what I have before.  IMHO the only talent we seem to be lacking is at TE and QB.  We are nowhere near playoff caliber at either position right now.  The rest of the team is very solid albeit hurt by some key injuries.

Personally I don't feel this season can be salvaged so I'm focused on doing whatever we can to salvage something out of Mitch in hope that Nagy can learn to walk on water or at the very least turn Mitch into another Alex Smith game manager with some mobility.

If we're gonna look at inexperienced rookies as some suggest then sign one or trade for one now so we can at least evaluate him before next spring when we can become more serious about the available vets out there and bring one of them in as well.

But I gotta say that my opinion of our ability to judge QB talent and develop it has hit another low point which is why with the defense we have and the short but open window it's time to end any experimenting and find a solution fast.

Our OL has talent but is massively underperforming with regularity, they have been underprepared for simple twists and assignments. Talent only means so much if there isn't direction and scheming from coaching. The OL has been really bad, especially Leno. Until that improves the run game suffers and and Nagy just seems to hand the responsibility to Try and hope he makes something happen. 

I completely agree, the Bears had 3 options for their pick and would have been doing well with two, but they gave the most inexperienced kid the least help his rookie year. They may have ruined him like they did Cutler. 

[topwop1]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Money is the biggest issue with Foles and it's tough to work around. The Bears have serious salary cap limitations and adding Foles will only further complicate the finances. They need to focus on guys who don't/won't cost much.

What limitations will they have exactly?

While it'd be ideal to get a cheap QB that's good they need to focus more on getting one who can get the job done regardless of cost.