Trade Deadline Discussion

[Sugashane]

25 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Trade Floyd to Oakland for a 4 

Trade Miller to Dallas for a 5

Trade HHCD and Amukamara to Philly for a 5

 

And cut Davis. Get that damn comp pick back! A 4th vs him is a clear win for the pick. Plus Patterson is a better RB anyway IMO. 

Honestly I'm fine with trading Leno for peanuts to get out from his contract too. Let Bars try to hold the fort down there for the year. See if he is someone who can potentially stay at OT. 

Burton isn't getting much but might as well drop him for a 5th if you can. If not I'd take later picks, or even a 2021 5th. Let Wims take his spot as the flex TE. Burton blocks like a 190lb WR right now anyway.

Long is done (of course can't trade him but just looking at the future) so that will be cap space opened. So you've opened up 2 starting roles that Coward and Bars get to have early auditions for, and have a few more picks to try and add talent I'd you don't try to attack the spots in FA. 

[soulman]

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

@soulman I also respect your opinion.  I just think the team needs to absolutely know that Mitch is not the answer heading into next season because they cannot keep waiting for something to magically happen.  If you sit him now and let Daniel play the rest of the way then what happens for next season..do you give Mitch one last shot to prove himself in camp in a legitimate QB competition?  If that's the case then you damn well better make sure you have some one other than Chase Daniel to turn to because the team cannot go through another season of this crap.  People will lose jobs and teammates will begin dividing from each other.  

No, I would do just as Jeff Hughes suggests here.

Mitch Trubisky being the guy was the best case scenario for anyone hoping to see the Bears win another Super Bowl title in the near future.

But just as important as his being the guy was, it is equally important for the organization to acknowledge his NOT being the guy. The Bears can’t afford to let this defensive window close while they experiment at quarterback. Trubisky should continue playing out this season because you can’t add a quarterback at the deadline and expect him to produce. But this organization will be negligent if they don’t bring in a veteran – one capable of starting – to challenge him next summer. Right now, Trubisky’s ceiling is competent. Nick Foles’ ceiling is Super Bowl MVP.

Might Trubisky turn this around? Sure. Anything is possible in sports. But what does “turn this around” even mean? Trubisky is never going to be a top tier quarterback in this league. He simply has too far to travel down that road and no quarterback is given the time he requires anymore.

It's time for both Nagy and Pace to accept the reality that there is a very good chance Mitch is not "the guy" and will never be more than "just another guy" middle of the road NFL QB.  To prepare for that Pace needs to be making plans now for who he might actually acquire to compete with Mitch for the #1 spot in 2020.

I'm not suggesting we sit Mitch for another 10 games but for now sitting him for a few games serves two purposes.

1) It takes off the pressure to produce now and allows Nagy to do some game time coaching while watching Daniel runs the offense he knows far better than Trubisky does right now.  Nagy can point out key decision points and which receivers come open against certain coverages because sure as hell Mitch seems to lack that knowledge now.  Of course to do this Nagy needs to hand over play calling to someone else.

2) It also serves to tell Mitch he's no longer guaranteed his starting position and that he must improve dramatically and quickly because from now on he will be facing competition for the #1 QB spot.  If Nagy isn't willing to hold Mitch just as accountable for his performance as every other player on that offense then IMHO he's wasting his time and morale will continue to decline along with offensive performance.

With Daniel at QB we're forced to abandon any real RPO calls and instead get an actual and effective run game going.  Daniel is good enough in the short and intermediate passing game to force teams to respect that and drop that Safety and possibly a LB into coverage so we aren't looking to block 8 guys with 5 OL and a TE.  With Mitch playing they aren't respecting his passing and we end up trying to run against and 8 man front nearly every down.  No run game, no offensive success no matter whose playing QB.

Mitch needs more development both mentally and in his mechanics which are impacting his accuracy.  The only way we can do that now is from the sidelines and also be sharing practice reps with Daniel.  Right now this offense is sadly lacking in any ability to play hard nosed punch you in the gut basic fundamental football and they need to do it.  We can't win with trick plays and deception because we aren't fooling anyone when we can't even execute the plays being called.  It's pathetic right now and we all know this.

I'm already looking at this year becoming trashed simply because Nagy has skipped over that step of getting his team ready to play hard nosed in your face fundamental offensive football.  He's been whipping up the frosting before the cake has been properly prepared and baked.  I'm now looking at 2020 to be a comeback year once we've spent the balance of this one fixing what should never have had to be fixed this late in the game and that's includes the QB position.  It it's not done you can kiss a championship good bye now.

[Nads786]

3 minutes ago, soulman said:

 

This is a well written article. We really do need to bring in true competition to this team. I know people will hate on Chase but he ran the offense significantly better than Mitch against the Vikings and the Raiders. The pass blocking was somehow better and WR's were open. I just don't think Mitch is grasping this offense in a way we wanted him too.

[beardown3231]

3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

And cut Davis. Get that damn comp pick back! A 4th vs him is a clear win for the pick. Plus Patterson is a better RB anyway IMO. 

Honestly I'm fine with trading Leno for peanuts to get out from his contract too. Let Bars try to hold the fort down there for the year. See if he is someone who can potentially stay at OT. 

Burton isn't getting much but might as well drop him for a 5th if you can. If not I'd take later picks, or even a 2021 5th. Let Wims take his spot as the flex TE. Burton blocks like a 190lb WR right now anyway.

Long is done (of course can't trade him but just looking at the future) so that will be cap space opened. So you've opened up 2 starting roles that Coward and Bars get to have early auditions for, and have a few more picks to try and add talent I'd you don't try to attack the spots in FA. 

wait, so if they keep Davis, they lose the comp pick for Amos?

Or are you saying if they keep Davis, so be it but if they cut him, they get a 4th?

[beardown3231]

21 minutes ago, soulman said:

No, I would do just as Jeff Hughes suggests here.

Mitch Trubisky being the guy was the best case scenario for anyone hoping to see the Bears win another Super Bowl title in the near future.

But just as important as his being the guy was, it is equally important for the organization to acknowledge his NOT being the guy. The Bears can’t afford to let this defensive window close while they experiment at quarterback. Trubisky should continue playing out this season because you can’t add a quarterback at the deadline and expect him to produce. But this organization will be negligent if they don’t bring in a veteran – one capable of starting – to challenge him next summer. Right now, Trubisky’s ceiling is competent. Nick Foles’ ceiling is Super Bowl MVP.

Might Trubisky turn this around? Sure. Anything is possible in sports. But what does “turn this around” even mean? Trubisky is never going to be a top tier quarterback in this league. He simply has too far to travel down that road and no quarterback is given the time he requires anymore.

It's time for both Nagy and Pace to accept the reality that there is a very good chance Mitch is not "the guy" and will never be more than "just another guy" middle of the road NFL QB.  To prepare for that Pace needs to be making plans now for who he might actually acquire to compete with Mitch for the #1 spot in 2020.

I'm not suggesting we sit Mitch for another 10 games but for now sitting him for a few games serves two purposes.

1) It takes off the pressure to produce now and allows Nagy to do some game time coaching while watching Daniel runs the offense he knows far better than Trubisky does right now.  Nagy can point out key decision points and which receivers come open against certain coverages because sure as hell Mitch seems to lack that knowledge now.  Of course to do this Nagy needs to hand over play calling to someone else.

2) It also serves to tell Mitch he's no longer guaranteed his starting position and that he must improve dramatically and quickly because from now on he will be facing competition for the #1 QB spot.  If Nagy isn't willing to hold Mitch just as accountable for his performance as every other player on that offense then IMHO he's wasting his time and morale will continue to decline along with offensive performance.

With Daniel at QB we're forced to abandon any real RPO calls and instead get an actual and effective run game going.  Daniel is good enough in the short and intermediate passing game to force teams to respect that and drop that Safety and possibly a LB into coverage so we aren't looking to block 8 guys with 5 OL and a TE.  With Mitch playing they aren't respecting his passing and we end up trying to run against and 8 man front nearly every down.  No run game, no offensive success no matter whose playing QB.

Mitch needs more development both mentally and in his mechanics which are impacting his accuracy.  The only way we can do that now is from the sidelines and also be sharing practice reps with Daniel.  Right now this offense is sadly lacking in any ability to play hard nosed punch you in the gut basic fundamental football and they need to do it.  We can't win with trick plays and deception because we aren't fooling anyone when we can't even execute the plays being called.  It's pathetic right now and we all know this.

I'm already looking at this year becoming trashed simply because Nagy has skipped over that step of getting his team ready to play hard nosed in your face fundamental offensive football.  He's been whipping up the frosting before the cake has been properly prepared and baked.  I'm now looking at 2020 to be a comeback year once we've spent the balance of this one fixing what should never have had to be fixed this late in the game and that's includes the QB position.  It it's not done you can kiss a championship good bye now.

Hughes is really good and he's typically optimistic. He does have a source inside the organization and he tweeted yesterday that the whispers inside the organization are becoming shouts in regards to the disbelief in Trubisky, and that the whispers began last year

[soulman]

And Sweet Jeezus please just stop with all of the trade scenarios already.  This isn't phuc'n Miami.  We'd be better off to fill a gap where we have a weakness than conduct a fire sale and I'm sure Pace is also thinking the same way.

Miller needs to mature a little and he will but trading a guy you spent a pick on to move up to get him in round two for a mid round pick is just ludicrous.  The entire offense looks sad right now so laying anything on just one guy makes zero sense.  The kid scored 7 TDs as a rookie and he can't be faulted for Mitch's inaccuracies or Nagy's play selection.  Miller wants to play and to win.  I applaud that.

We were all thrilled with the roster six games ago and now some of you want to send core players packing for mid to late round draft picks?  Pace just spent two offseasons rebuilding the team and now after 3 losses you want to rebuild it again?  Sorry but that's just plain dumb.  We're currently lacking solid leadership both at QB and in our HC not players.  That's what needs fixing.

The defense hasn't fallen apart but they're getting abused from being on the field so much and because given enough shots at them any decent team is gonna roll up some scores.  Three Q's worth of mostly 3 and outs is gonna wear any defense down and with Hicks on IR we've lost one of our best run stoppers and all around DL.

A lot of what were dealing with is correctable once Nagy gets more honest with himself about how he's been coaching his offense.  It seems the combination of an inexperienced HC coupled with an equally inexperienced QB is coming home to roost now.  How well do you all think LaFleur would be doing in GB without Aaron Rodgers?

Edited October 21, 2019 by soulman

[soulman]

22 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

This is a well written article. We really do need to bring in true competition to this team. I know people will hate on Chase but he ran the offense significantly better than Mitch against the Vikings and the Raiders. The pass blocking was somehow better and WR's were open. I just don't think Mitch is grasping this offense in a way we wanted him too.

Clearly he has not and all signs point to that having been an issue all summer long during camp.  The real problem was Nagy being too optimistic about him eventually "getting it" and in truth I believe that's still his problem which is why he's continuing to back Mitch now when he should be more honest with himself and looking at his other options.

By my observations Daniel is finding and hitting his open receivers with accurate well timed throws.  Yeah, he made a real boner throw against Oak. that got picked and cost us a TD early but he rallied the offense back and took the lead.  You can't fault him for a defensive breakdown that allowed a 97 yard scoring drive. He played well enough for a win.

We need to be playing better bread and butter fundamental offensive football and due to Daniel's limitations that all we can really expect to get from him but right now it's enough.  That coupled with Mitch actually watching how it's done and hopefully learning from it so he can return soon is IMHO why it should be done now. Not doing it will cost us more than a few more losses in the long run.

[Nads786]

29 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Hughes is really good and he's typically optimistic. He does have a source inside the organization and he tweeted yesterday that the whispers inside the organization are becoming shouts in regards to the disbelief in Trubisky, and that the whispers began last year

This is interesting, could you provide any  more information or links? I'd like to read more about this from last year. 

[soulman]

19 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Hughes is really good and he's typically optimistic. He does have a source inside the organization and he tweeted yesterday that the whispers inside the organization are becoming shouts in regards to the disbelief in Trubisky, and that the whispers began last year

And in his very first paragraph he pointed that out just to set himself aside from the Trib guys who are looking for negatives to report on and having little trouble finding them.  About now Nagy must have marks on his back from being raked over the coals by that bunch but it's not like it's exactly ill deserved either.  With that big pay check come big responsibilities as well.  So, time to pull up his big boy pants the honeymoon granted him for his 12-4 season is now officially over.  That's how it works in Chicago.

When your team comes out as flat as they have these past two games, and those are added to an opener against your main rival celebrating your teams 100th year when we did the same, I'd be shocked if whispers didn't turn to shouts.  I very definitely sense a morale problem surrounding our QB once again and it's being exacerbated by a HC whose forcing the issue expecting everyone else to over compensate for Mitch's failure to lead the offense. It can be fixed but not the way we're going about it now.

[beardown3231]

 

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, Nads786 said:

This is interesting, could you provide any  more information or links? I'd like to read more about this from last year. 

He tweeted it this morning or last night IIRC

[Sugashane]

27 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

wait, so if they keep Davis, they lose the comp pick for Amos?

Or are you saying if they keep Davis, so be it but if they cut him, they get a 4th?

Yep, I don't know a lot about it but it has been stated by enough sources that it has me believing it. He has to be cut or apparently we lose it due to White being cut, for whatever reason. We basically have to pick between him or the compensatory pick. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beargoggleson.com/2019/08/21/kevin-white-cut-arizona-cardinals-bears-lose-compensatory-pick/amp/

https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/2019/08/21/the-cardinals-threw-a-wrench-in-the-bears-plans-to-land-2020-comp-pick-by-cutting-kevin-white/

[Nads786]

4 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He tweeted it this morning or last night IIRC

Thanks!

[abstract_thought]

It's an interesting thought experiment, but I don't think you can go back to Mitch if you bench him. That's more of a long-term, organizational decision than one Nagy can make independently from week-to-week.

[soulman]

11 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

It's an interesting thought experiment, but I don't think you can go back to Mitch if you bench him. That's more of a long-term, organizational decision than one Nagy can make independently from week-to-week.

Why not?  If it's well understood that the purpose is for Mitch to learn from watching someone else who does know the offense well operate it then it either works or it doesn't.  It's sure as hell not working sending him out there each week armed with a pocket knife's worth of ability to operate his offense to fight a gunfight.

Daniel has never been his competition.  He's been is instructor.

The pure fact of the matter is if Mitch can't pick up this offense, step back in, and operate it well after even that attempt at helping him he has to know that he will have strong competition to go up against in 2020 and both his status as a starter and his entire NFL career are hanging by single thread right now.  It is that critical for him.

I really don't think he understands that yet and he needs to.  If Pace and Nagy aren't willing to send him that message I think you can kiss this whole rebuilding effort and any shot at a championship goodbye.  Then we've also regressed back to being the same old Bears.