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Jets cut G Kelechi Osemele after he elects to have shoulder surgery


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1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

Then the Jets docs shouldn’t have cleared him if the labrum was completely torn.  But either way the Jets are still on the hook.  
 

That’s the problem with your take.  It’s completely ludicrous to have ok’d the deal on their end.   

I’ve got no dog in this show.  But this honestly makes the Jets FO look like a Mickey Mouse org and completely untrustworthy.   And the fanbase fares no better here in defending their current position.   

A torn labrum is something you can play through, based on the severity, it's a pain tolerance issue (Yes, even if completely torn). 

KO was clearly comfortable playing through the pain before being benched.

Agreed, it's a terrible look for the Jets regardless of how they feel about the injury itself. 

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34 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

But that's also not true. Pain is part of it, but disability is another SIGNIFICANT part of it. I tore my labrum. I could live with the pain, I couldn't live with the inability to lift my arm above the level of my shoulder and do pushups, which was required by my job. With a completely torn labrum, it is very possible that Osemele had functional limitations that negatively impacted his performance on the field. He wasn't getting better with rehab, so surgery is ABSOLUTELY the correct answer. In regards to the question of when? The answer is right away...not after the end of the season. You wait until after the end of the season, you continue to have the pain and functional limitation, and you also put the next season into jeopardy. You also put yourself at right for developing a chronic pain syndrome such as CRPS or develop compensatory injuries such as a tendinopathies. Surgery is 100% the correct answer if he has functionally limiting complete labrum tear. 

I agree with all of this, well said, but your speculating the same way I am. 

Your basing your analysis of the situation on the belief that the injury is limiting his functionality, and thus, inhibiting his performance. This means your also speculating that the injury has worsened since joining the Jets, because up until a few weeks ago, he was completely comfortable playing through the discomfort. From my understanding, none of this is factual. It's exactly why the Jets have taken this ridiculous stance. 

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Just now, NJC33 said:

I agree with all of this, well said, but your speculating the same way I am. 

Your basing your analysis of the situation on the belief that the injury is limiting his functionality, and thus, inhibiting his performance. This means your also speculating that the injury has worsened since joining the Jets, because up until a few weeks ago, he was completely comfortable playing through the discomfort. From my understanding, none of this is factual. It's exactly why the Jets have taken this ridiculous stance. 

Yes, I'm going to speculate that a completely torn labrum will cause functional limitations. It's a chief stabilizer of the shoulder joint, and with a complete tear it is incredibly rare to NOT get functional limitations. I'm speculating based on a very high level of probabilities, you are speculating based on wishful thinking. 

A few weeks ago perhaps he had a partially torn labrum...until he didn't, and he lost function. Again, this is NOT about pain, this is about loss of function. You have multiple independent surgeons who say that he needs surgery...they don't make that call unless there is radiographic evidence of a labrum tear, a physical exam that correlates, and a history that suggests that he has incapacitating pain or loss of function that didn't response to therapy. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at first...but wow...you really have no clue what you are talking about. I'm not going to waste my time any more talking with you.

 

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Their options are to put him on injured reserve or to release him or to keep him on the active roster.

The fines are just going to get them to lose a 20 million+ dollar lawsuit

No team has the option to tell a player they can't have surgery for an injury.

They had the chance to fail him on the physical leading up to the trade. By passing him they are now responsible for his health and have to deal with it even if its a preexisting condition.

This includes if a player says they have had enough toradol and won't take more.

 

This is not the 1970's.

 

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20 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

Yes, I'm going to speculate that a completely torn labrum will cause functional limitations. It's a chief stabilizer of the shoulder joint, and with a complete tear it is incredibly rare to NOT get functional limitations. I'm speculating based on a very high level of probabilities, you are speculating based on wishful thinking. 

A few weeks ago perhaps he had a partially torn labrum...until he didn't, and he lost function. Again, this is NOT about pain, this is about loss of function. You have multiple independent surgeons who say that he needs surgery...they don't make that call unless there is radiographic evidence of a labrum tear, a physical exam that correlates, and a history that suggests that he has incapacitating pain or loss of function that didn't response to therapy. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at first...but wow...you really have no clue what you are talking about. I'm not going to waste my time any more talking with you.

 

Wishful thinking, lol.

I couldn't care less about whether or not the back-up guard on a 1-5 football team wants to get surgery, and I've already made it clear I believe the Jets are in the wrong. My only objective here is to provide context as to why you may not be as informed as your leading on. You have NO idea the severity of the injury, yet you provide a medical analysis as if you've spoken to KO's doctors directly so you can push your own agenda. Neither of us know the facts, yet only one of us is willing to admit that. 

I never wanted to waste my time talking with you to begin with, but you decided to seek out confrontation and became baffled that I wouldn't conform to your opinion lol.

You made a lot of good points, admittedly, I just don't think it's nearly as cut and dry as you'd like it be.

Happy to finally put this to rest. 

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2 hours ago, NJC33 said:

Osemele has been dealing with a completely torn labrum predating his trade to the Jets, meaning he understood fully the degree of pain he would be required to play through when he initially decided forgo surgery and commit to playing for the Jets this season.

 

8 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

You have NO idea the severity of the injury, yet you provide a medical analysis as if you've spoken to KO's doctors directly so you can push your own agenda. Neither of us know the facts, yet only one of us is willing to admit that. 

Irony

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This is really 10 pages? You made a bad signing due to injury. They aren't the first nor the last team that will do this. There's literally nothing to be gained as an organization by doing this. This is similar to how Detroit went after Calvin Johnson after he retired. Stop you're a billion dollar organization. You'll be okay.

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3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Irony

If you hadn't taken it so completely out context yes. 

"Completely torn labrum" is a diagnosis, not an evaluation of severity (Also, I was simply quoting his diagnosis that I believe to be true). "Severity" was used to reference the level of functionality/pain that I accused him of speculating over.  

Did you really take the time to scroll through 10 pages of this crap so you could try and make a clever joke or are you just that desperate to make someone else look bad?

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29 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

If you hadn't taken it so completely out context yes. 

"Completely torn labrum" is a diagnosis, not an evaluation of severity (Also, I was simply quoting his diagnosis that I believe to be true). "Severity" was used to reference the level of functionality/pain that I accused him of speculating over.  

Did you really take the time to scroll through 10 pages of this crap so you could try and make a clever joke or are you just that desperate to make someone else look bad?

Those two posts were like 2 pages apart, lol. 

The irony comes from the idea that “no one knows the facts” but you are cherry-picking what to believe in terms of tweets/public statements made by those involved. “No one knows the severity”, but also “he was completely comfortable playing with the injury before”. 

Yikes...

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44 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Those two posts were like 2 pages apart, lol. 

The irony comes from the idea that “no one knows the facts” but you are cherry-picking what to believe in terms of tweets/public statements made by those involved. “No one knows the severity”, but also “he was completely comfortable playing with the injury before”. 

Yikes...

Eh, why not: This isn’t irony. 

“He was completely comfortable playing with the injury before” - This isn’t speculation, it’s well documented.

”No one knows the severity” - Still true. I never once tried to impose my opinion of the situation as factual, but have been criticized for being wrong by those who have.

Once again, you strung together two separate statements without context: KO is comfortable + No one knows how KO feels (Ironic!) In actuality, I was saying: At one point KO was comfortable playing through his injury, circumstances have changed, and now no one knows the severity of his injury. 
 

See the difference? 

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15 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Eh, why not: This isn’t irony. 

“He was completely comfortable playing with the injury before” - This isn’t speculation, it’s well documented.

”No one knows the severity” - Still true. I never once tried to impose my opinion of the situation as factual, but have been criticized for being wrong by those who have.

Once again, you strung together two separate statements without context: KO is comfortable + No one knows how KO feels (Ironic!) In actuality, I was saying: At one point KO was comfortable playing through his injury, circumstances have changed, and now no one knows the severity of his injury. 
 

See the difference? 

I see what you’re saying, but it’s still ironic. 

You have no idea how comfortable KO was. KO playing through injury doesn’t mean he was comfortable doing it nor does it mean he wanted to do it. So you can say something like that, as if it’s factual (or at minimum, “well documented”), but you’ll call the idea of his injury worsening by playing football “speculation”. You can speculate on his mindset regarding an injury, but also say the exact severity is up in the air. Doesn’t fly. 

Doctors said it needs surgery. He says the pain is too much to play - which as much as you may disagree, makes complete sense. Injuries tend to get worse playing full contact sports. It’s an open-shut case here. The Jets have every right to be upset, but it’s such an easy call. You don’t see the Jaguars making this stink about Ramsey and his “flu” - and that was an out of the blue thing. This is a documented injury that doctors have legitimately said needs surgery now. 

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

I see what you’re saying, but it’s still ironic. 

You have no idea how comfortable KO was. KO playing through injury doesn’t mean he was comfortable doing it nor does it mean he wanted to do it. So you can say something like that, as if it’s factual (or at minimum, “well documented”), but you’ll call the idea of his injury worsening by playing football “speculation”. You can speculate on his mindset regarding an injury, but also say the exact severity is up in the air. Doesn’t fly. 

Doctors said it needs surgery. He says the pain is too much to play - which as much as you may disagree, makes complete sense. Injuries tend to get worse playing full contact sports. It’s an open-shut case here. The Jets have every right to be upset, but it’s such an easy call. You don’t see the Jaguars making this stink about Ramsey and his “flu” - and that was an out of the blue thing. This is a documented injury that doctors have legitimately said needs surgery now. 

Technically no, I don't know exactly how comfortable KO was, but my assumption was certainly more than just speculation:

  • KO was very public all offseason raving about how great he felt physically 
  • If he was truly never comfortable, why not get surgery in the offseason? 
  • He 100% wanted to play or at least said he did - A trade would've never been finalized otherwise. (No way the Jets make a trade for a guy without gauging both his physical/metal health given the circumstances)

It was made very clear by both his actions/words that KO felt comfortable heading into the season. That isn't speculation.  

As for part two: I find it hard to believe that Joe Douglas would put his reputation on the line, and subject the Jets to this type of scrutiny, if it were in fact an open-shut case like you want to believe. Something isn't adding up. Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time this organization has let me down. 

We can agree to disagree. I'm tired of defending myself over a topic I have zero interest in. I was asked for my opinion and responded accordingly.

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1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

Technically no, I don't know exactly how comfortable KO was, but my assumption was certainly more than just speculation:

  • KO was very public all offseason raving about how great he felt physically 

Which doesn’t make him comfortable, but only willing. What’s he supposed to say? 

And even if he did feel great...things change.

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:
  • If he was truly never comfortable, why not get surgery in the offseason?

Players play through injuries all the time. Also highly possible it got worse since then. 

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

 

  • He 100% wanted to play or at least said he did - A trade would've never been finalized otherwise. (No way the Jets make a trade for a guy without gauging both his physical/metal health given the circumstances)

It was made very clear by both his actions/words that KO felt comfortable heading into the season. That isn't speculation.  

So let me ask: why is it a stretch to say it got worse? He may have felt like he could play on it, only to find that A) he can’t, or B) it got worse. 

Assuming he got injured playing football, why is it so unlikely that continuing the exact activity that caused the pain, made it worse? 

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