Well does Fatty Patricia get fired?

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, Lionized said:

At this point I would be more upset for them winning games. I just don’t get why people are throwing their arms up in the air complaining that we’re losing with a third string QB. The players you mentioned above would be huge for us. 

I'm not cheering for the Lions to lose but I'm certainly not going to complain that they lost with a 3rd string QB under center. It's almost a given that it's going to be a rough time when you lose your starting QB for any team. Let alone one that has the issues that the Lions have had, principally on defense. 

Trying to take the positive out of it, it helps the draft stock and HOPEFULLY we can be in the Chase Young sweepstakes. 

[Lionized]

6 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I'm not cheering for the Lions to lose but I'm certainly not going to complain that they lost with a 3rd string QB under center. It's almost a given that it's going to be a rough time when you lose your starting QB for any team. Let alone one that has the issues that the Lions have had, principally on defense. 

Trying to take the positive out of it, it helps the draft stock and HOPEFULLY we can be in the Chase Young sweepstakes. 

Chase Young would do wonders for this Defense

[CWood21]

7 minutes ago, Lionized said:

Chase Young would do wonders for this Defense

Lions probably aren't going to be that bad.

[Lionized]

13 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Lions probably aren't going to be that bad.

I don’t see us winning another game we play the bucs. The biggest obstacle of moving up is the tie we have. A lot of teams would have to win twice to move up far enough to get him though. 
 

Atlanta plays Tampa

Giants play the Redskins

Dolphins play jets giants and bengals. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Lionized

[diehardlionfan]

3 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Sometimes you have to step backwards in order to step forwards. And yes, I know that this franchise has been stepping backwards like Michael Jackson in the Thriller video. 

We need a pass-rusher. Assuming the Bengals stay at #1, there is very little chance that they don't take Joe Burrow. A generational talent is going to be available in Chase Young. A franchise LT in Andrew Thomas could be available. Skill guys like Jerry Jeudy or Ceedee Lamb will be there. A QBOTF like Tua could be sitting there for us. Or we could trade down for a number of franchise changing picks. 

The team is competing and fighting. They aren't finishing. So they're missing some pieces. They didn't lay down and then get rolled over by the Bears. Which is what I expected would happen. I figured Blough wouldn't be up to the task, the Bears would get multiple sacks, Prater would get about 3 long FG's and Chicago's defense would have at least one score of their own from a fumble, INT, etc. The only game they've really been blown out in was the Vikings game. Otherwise, they've been in every single game. 

Sorry my friend I’ve heard the same cliched crap for over 40 years. My disgust with the Lions isn’t directed at you or any other individual but I’m not buying the excuses you’re peddling. 

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. In the NFL the only thing that counts is W’s and once again the Lions regress after having fired the only quasi effective coach they’ve had in decades because the record wasn’t good enough. Based on that alone Quinn should be on the next flight out. He was wrong and the team has regressed both years since Caldwells firing. 

I’ve been a fan of this team for 56 years. They do two things well. Make excuses and lose. What they don’t do is win thus no playoffs, no championships, nothing, nada, zip. As an organization it’s almost impossible to put together a string of incompetence so legendary. Only in sports can you fail for so long and still be in business. 

If the Lions were to draft a receiver with a first round pick that would officially be the last straw. However it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Lions make such a colossal stupid pick. For goodness sakes even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. Quinn and Patricia are classic ineffective individuals. Experienced, smart but they continually seem to over think everything and end up screwing everything up.

They want an effective running game. Well, to do that you need to have linemen that can block. Until you have linemen that have proven they can block, you keep looking for linemen. Not Quinn he assumes he’s got a line and drafts a first round TE and a second round RB. 

I won’t even talk about the defence. Patricia is supposed to be a defensive guy? Ya, it sure shows. I know, I know, he needs his guys at least that’s seems to be a favoured excuse.

I sincerely hope the Lions manage to move Stafford to a quality organization. He deserves the opportunity to play for a team whose management and coaches have a clue what they’re doing. 
 

 

[diehardlionfan]

2 hours ago, Lionized said:

Chase Young would do wonders for this Defense

Perhaps. Perhaps not. 

If I had a dollar for every player the Lions have drafted or signed that was supposed to elevate the team I would have allot of dollar bills.

[Lionized]

38 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

Perhaps. Perhaps not. 

If I had a dollar for every player the Lions have drafted or signed that was supposed to elevate the team I would have allot of dollar bills.

This is true. I just would be excited to see what Flowers and him could do on the same field together. 

[diehardlionfan]

29 minutes ago, Lionized said:

This is true. I just would be excited to see what Flowers and him could do on the same field together. 

If they were on the field together I would be excited, if the scheme changed. I’m not a fan of Detroit’s scheme and while another effective edge rusher would be great it would be even better if they ran a scheme designed to pressure the QB. Maybe, just maybe if that happened the secondary would have a chance and the MLB could breakup the odd hurried pass play.

I would certainly be much more excited to see Young, a LT, RT, DT, MLB, CB than if they draft a receiver, RB or TE in the first. It’s just wishful thinking because I don’t see a scenario where Young would be available to the Lions

[Karnage84]

13 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

Sorry my friend I’ve heard the same cliched crap for over 40 years. My disgust with the Lions isn’t directed at you or any other individual but I’m not buying the excuses you’re peddling. 

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. In the NFL the only thing that counts is W’s and once again the Lions regress after having fired the only quasi effective coach they’ve had in decades because the record wasn’t good enough. Based on that alone Quinn should be on the next flight out. He was wrong and the team has regressed both years since Caldwells firing. 

I’ve been a fan of this team for 56 years. They do two things well. Make excuses and lose. What they don’t do is win thus no playoffs, no championships, nothing, nada, zip. As an organization it’s almost impossible to put together a string of incompetence so legendary. Only in sports can you fail for so long and still be in business. 

If the Lions were to draft a receiver with a first round pick that would officially be the last straw. However it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Lions make such a colossal stupid pick. For goodness sakes even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. Quinn and Patricia are classic ineffective individuals. Experienced, smart but they continually seem to over think everything and end up screwing everything up.

They want an effective running game. Well, to do that you need to have linemen that can block. Until you have linemen that have proven they can block, you keep looking for linemen. Not Quinn he assumes he’s got a line and drafts a first round TE and a second round RB. 

I won’t even talk about the defence. Patricia is supposed to be a defensive guy? Ya, it sure shows. I know, I know, he needs his guys at least that’s seems to be a favoured excuse.

I sincerely hope the Lions manage to move Stafford to a quality organization. He deserves the opportunity to play for a team whose management and coaches have a clue what they’re doing. 
 

 

You have many more years of disappointment under your belt, so I get where you're coming from. I try to look at things as I'll deal with what's 6" in front of me and deal with whatever comes along when I have to. 

The Lions attempted to bring the Patriots way to Detroit in an attempt to change the losing culture of the organization. It's clear and obvious with the pairing of Quinn and Patricia. They aren't Bellichick but they assumed that these guys had been a part of the program for so long that they could bring that spice into this team. It has definitely not worked so far. It might never work. I just don't think that we've seen enough of a sample size to get a proper indication of what this team truly is. Last year the defense had really improved but Stafford was playing with a broken back. We're going to be without Stafford, our MVP candidate level QB, for the bulk of the season due to injury. The defense has been atrocious this year so it probably doesn't make a difference but it does have to be a factor in the overall picture of things. 

Scarborough has been doing pretty well behind the same OL we've trotted out all season. He'd have back-to-back 100+ yard games if not for some careless penalties bringing back 20+ yard runs. Stafford hasn't been hit or sacked nearly as often as he has been over the last couple of years. Wagner is still terrible but maybe the OL isn't getting enough credit for what it has accomplished as a group. 

I know that every team deals with injury but this defense, especially the defensive line, has had to deal with injuries for practically every single guy. Flowers, Daniels, Hand, Slay, Walker, Diggs (when he was on the team), Snacks, A'Shawn, Coleman, Okwara, Davis, Tavai and Melvin. All starters or key contributors that have missed 1 or more games this year due to injury. That's 13 guys out of the 27 guys on the depth chart. Coaching and execution are absolutely a part of it but it seems pretty clear that the key injuries for guys like Flowers, Daniels, Hand and the hold out of Snacks has played some part in how bad this defense is. 

Stafford has held up this team for nearly his entire career. He has rarely ever been the problem with the team. If things go south next year, I hope that he does get traded to a team like the Panthers or Broncos. He deserves to be on a team that is in the fight to get into the playoffs and win a championship. I am hopeful that he can do that with the Lions but I'll be cheering for that guy wherever he goes. 

[SimbaWho]

It's not an open mind Karnage.. It's excuse over excuse. Reasoning upon reasoning for losing.

Fans like you, honestly, truly, are why this team doesn't try. They don't need to at all. They can fail an fail and you'll buy whatever the story-line is they're selling. You'll watch regardless and when the papers print things like Hock being a generational type TE talent you'll eat it up like birthday cake and the season rolls by and now... You'll say he's just a rookie TE...(Ah duh! We knew this type of season was going to happen with him.) It's literally a bust of a pick unless Hock is a HOF TE. 

Guys like Ed Oliver/Devin Bush were no brainers unless you think you're smarter than everyone(which Quinn/Patricia think they are). They got cute and thought a TE would help and it doesn't, didn't, hasn't made a huge impact on the team. Blocking is no better, none of the TE's brought in are major threats for the offense. 

It's a joke my man. We fired a successful guy for these two too only take major steps backwards. I'm not upset they're losing. I thought this was going to be a clown show from the start. I just hope ownership has some more sense than you or other fans and let these guys go at the end of the season. Both have had there shot. Honestly. It's the NFL and there are better coaches without jobs or less jobs everywhere. It's not like there isn't a GM/HC out there now that can't replace and upgrade these guys.

Patricia is literally no better on the sideline with managing the game than Jim Caldwell was, which was why I was ready to move on from Caldwell. I admit I wanted Caldwell gone cause I was willing to risk the chance of getting a better coach, but I should of been happy with him cause this guy sucks. Completely. He's just down right terrible. He'll never get another HC job again in the NFL after this stint. 

Edited November 29, 2019 by SimbaWho

[Karnage84]

24 minutes ago, SimbaWho said:

It's not an open mind Karnage.. It's excuse over excuse. Reasoning upon reasoning for losing.

Fans like you, honestly, truly, are why this team doesn't try. They don't need to at all. They can fail an fail and you'll buy whatever the story-line is they're selling. You'll watch regardless and when the papers print things like Hock being a generational type TE talent you'll eat it up like birthday cake and the season rolls by and now... You'll say he's just a rookie TE...(Ah duh! We knew this type of season was going to happen with him.) It's literally a bust of a pick unless Hock is a HOF TE. 

Guys like Ed Oliver/Devin Bush were no brainers unless you think you're smarter than everyone(which Quinn/Patricia think they are). They got cute and thought a TE would help and it doesn't, didn't, hasn't made a huge impact on the team. Blocking is no better, none of the TE's brought in are major threats for the offense. 

It's a joke my man. We fired a successful guy for these two too only take major steps backwards. I'm not upset they're losing. I thought this was going to be a clown show from the start. I just hope ownership has some more sense than you or other fans and let these guys go at the end of the season. Both have had there shot. Honestly. It's the NFL and there are better coaches without jobs or less jobs everywhere. It's not like there isn't a GM/HC out there now that can't replace and upgrade these guys.

Patricia is literally no better on the sideline with managing the game than Jim Caldwell was, which was why I was ready to move on from Caldwell. I admit I wanted Caldwell gone cause I was willing to risk the chance of getting a better coach, but I should of been happy with him cause this guy sucks. Completely. He's just down right terrible. He'll never get another HC job again in the NFL after this stint. 

Hindsight is 20/20. If we knew what it was going to be like when we hired Patricia, we would've just stuck with Caldwell. The team took a risk in making that change. That risk hasn't panned out. Same deal with Hockenson. It's not a pick that I would've made. I made several arguments against picking a TE that high and banged the drum on other guys like Foster Moreau beforehand. We also don't have a time machine. The pick is the pick. I'd rather see the kid work out and be worthy of the spot he was drafted in. It's an uphill battle. We also can't write things off just yet. We've all heard the same thing they say about rookie TE's. They run a particular scheme and Devin Bush didn't fit the scheme. Maybe they should be running a different scheme but for what it's worth, they picked a guy in round 2 that was a better fit for what they want to do. 

We all seem to forget that the offense was an issue last year and the defense had started to come together by seasons end. We had bottom end production at TE. Scouts were raving about Hockenson and he would likely have been picked within the first 16 picks anyway. They got the guy they wanted at a premium. The suggestion at the time was that his blocking was superior and he was already a pretty solid receiver. His blocking would escalate the run game and the Lions would have the balanced offense they've been craving. That has not worked out so far. 

Oliver and Bush aren't world-beaters either. Both are ranked in the mid-60's according to PFF, on better overall teams. Personally, I would have taken the trade down with Pittsburgh and drafted Fant at 20 (as opposed to Hock at 8) and Moreau in rd 4 if the TE position was considered to be of that importance. 

[CWood21]

Just now, Lionized said:

I don’t see us winning another game we play the bucs. The biggest obstacle of moving up is the tie we have. A lot of teams would have to win twice to move up far enough to get him though. 

Pretty much.  That tie is a hard thing to overcome when dealing with tiebreakers.  Packers had that same issue last year.  Hard seeing Cincinnati, Washington, or Miami winning another game, and it's hard to see Chase Young falling much.

[Karnage84]

10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Pretty much.  That tie is a hard thing to overcome when dealing with tiebreakers.  Packers had that same issue last year.  Hard seeing Cincinnati, Washington, or Miami winning another game, and it's hard to see Chase Young falling much.

I took a look at the schedule. The upside to all of this is that some of the teams ahead of us play each other. Since both teams can't lose, there is either a tie or a W for one/both. 

If the season plays out like I expect it could, draft order would be:

1) Bengals: 0-16 > Need a QB, likely draft Burrow

2) Giants: 2-14 > If there is a regime change, it's POSSIBLE that they replace Daniel Jones with someone like Tua

3) Redskins: 3-13 > See Giants at #2. 

4) Falcons: 3-13 > Could see a regime change here

5) Lions: 3-12-1

6) Dolphins: 4-12

7) Broncos: 4-12

It's not likely for Young to fall out of the top 3 regardless of whether the Giants or Redskins stay in those spots. We would probably have to trade up. Going from #5 (value of 1700) to #2 (value of 2600) means we're probably trading 2020 1st (5th) + 2020 2nd (Value of 530) + 2021 1st (Value of 530) in exchange for #2 Overall + 2020 4th + 2021 5th. 

I'm guessing that we will likely be trading Slay before we're at this point and will have some extra draft capital available (with a hole at CB). If this whole thing craps out, we're probably going to be trading Stafford and a few other guys to build up the 2021 draft capital anyway. 

[Nnivolcm]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/11/25/detroit-lions-2020-nfl-draft-chase-young/4297551002/

Quote

 

Step 1: Lose out

Step 2: Hype up Herbert

Step 3: Two wins for Miami, New York

Step 4: Win, Quinn

Step 5: A Mile High mauling

 

What needs to happen for the Lions to have a shot at Chase Young.

[Karnage84]

28 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/11/25/detroit-lions-2020-nfl-draft-chase-young/4297551002/

What needs to happen for the Lions to have a shot at Chase Young.

We have to trust the process, starting with Step 1.