How To Fix A Broken Offense......

[topwop1]

How I'd fix it in the short term if I'm Nagy is by handing over play calling duties to Helfrich to see what he can do and make it known that we are going to run and play smash mouth football. None of this drink and dunk pass stuff 45 times a game that gets the offense no where.

Next offseason I'm dedicating the majority of draft picks to the OL and TE positions. I'm also signing a vet QB and possibly drafting one if the right guy falls but will not force it if not.

 

 

[Epyon]

8 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

How I'd fix it in the short term if I'm Nagy is by handing over play calling duties to Helfrich to see what he can do and make it known that we are going to run and play smash mouth football. None of this drink and dunk pass stuff 45 times a game that gets the offense no where.

Helfrich is arguably more of a pass first guy too...  He took Chip Kelly's system at Oregon and improved it statistically with more passing and less running.

I'm wondering if Nagy's system might be the problem, tbh....  Trubisky clearly isn't getting it, and doesn't look like it's going to change...  If he's only a 1 read QB, then fine, run a 1 read system like the one Oregon had under Chip/Helfrich... it can't really be worse than what we're doing right now, and Mariota could be brought in easily for it

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Epyon

[soulman]

6 hours ago, BACK2MACKSACK said:

Even though our coaching and QB play have been bad, I think we have enough talent to have at least one game with a 70 yard rusher. This offense have been bad at both phases. The problem is that when you're not moving the chains, you cannot commit to the run and this also results in a defense playing worse due to less rest.

So why aren't we moving the chains? It can't all fall on the QB because our running game has also been atrocious.

Is it lack of TE? This is one problem because we find ourselves in tough down and distances and lack the reliable threat to move the chains. Burton has shown regression and we need to stop being content with average or bad TE's and get a legit endzone threat to help our QB regardless of who it is going forward.

It can't be WR or RB.

Finally Offensive Line. I really think this is the culprit of our offense because we should at least be average running or passing for it to be serviceable. We have stunk at both phases despite having a core of really good offensive weapons.

I believe that the entire offense doesn't fall on one guy and if Mitch was truly the problem we should have beaten the lowly Raiders. The way they were gashing us on those runs just shows how pathetic our O Line is compared to even an average offensive line.

Defensively we miss the hell out of Hicks and haven't yet adapted to his absence especially with Nichols playing injured and one handed. He's a major reason why teams couldn't run on us because not only does he protect the ILBs but he makes one hell of a lot of plays himself.  Losing him as far as our run defense goes is as bad as losing Mack would be to our pass rush.

Despite that we should not have been beaten by a 97 yard TD drive by Oakland.  There was no excuse for that with this defense especially when Daniel had atoned for that early pick and TD be getting us in the lead again.  I couldn't watch the game so I really don't know what went on there but good teams don't allow that to happen and yet we did.

Offensively I believe why we aren't moving the chains does fall on Mitch.  Most of the time he's simply not reading coverages quickly enough and selecting the right option.  DC's know his tendencies and his preference for throwing downfield and they're taking it away from him forcing him to check down where they also know who he'll go to and they cover him as well.  The end result is he has little or no short game or running game that can move the sticks so he runs instead and once injured even that lessens.  Mitch has become very predictable and not all that difficult to defend.

I can't judge our TEs fairly because we aren't throwing to them enough.  Why?

However my hunch on this is that Pace will rebuild that position in the offseason as he did with WR in 2018.  Burton seems to be kind of a flake who can't be depended upon any longer so maybe we just cut our losses and move on.  Shaheen hasn't done enough to bother keeping.  He's up against my 3 year rule where by year three a guy is all he'll ever be and despite his physical tools Shaheen has become a JAG.  We can do better at TE than these guys and we need to.

As for the OL and our run game I still believe Nagy's scheme is a poor fit for the guys we have.  We were not having these kind of problems running the ball before he arrived.  Of course trying to block 8 defenders with 5 OL and a TE who isn't doing his job well isn't helping either and once again that falls on Mitch's inability to make defenses respect his passing game.  He can't execute bread and butter plays well enough and no one is being fooled by Nagy's trickery any longer.

One reason I feel we should play Daniel is that it will force us to go back to playing more simple bread and butter football and executing it well.  Daniel does know the offense and where to go with the ball so he makes a decision quickly and gets the ball out whereas Mitch stands back there hemming and hawing and getting nowhere but sacked or he misses wide open receivers because he panics and it messes up his accuracy.  The bottom line is he should not be starting over Daniel right now.  JMHO.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

How I'd fix it in the short term if I'm Nagy is by handing over play calling duties to Helfrich to see what he can do and make it known that we are going to run and play smash mouth football. None of this drink and dunk pass stuff 45 times a game that gets the offense no where.

Next offseason I'm dedicating the majority of draft picks to the OL and TE positions. I'm also signing a vet QB and possibly drafting one if the right guy falls but will not force it if not.

 

 

TE without a doubt.  My hunch right now is both Burton and Shaheen will be replaced.  We can do far better than them and need to.  Burton seems like he's flaking out over his injury and Shaheen has simply not developed well enough to be a starter.  So he's bumping my 3 year rule which is by year 3 your are what you are and what he's become is a liability whose never reached his potential.

I don't think we can do a whole lot about the OL except maybe to add mid round OT prospects now that Coward seems destined to play RG or if not him then maybe Bars.  Contractually we're kinda stuck with Leno and Massie 'til at least 2021 or 2022 so there's not much sense spending a high pick on an OT unless one we can't pass up falls in our laps.

The entire OL just needs to man up and start playing ball again like they're capable of.  I suspect scheme and morale issues may be behind some of their issues as well but then so is the dilemma of how to block 8 guys with 5 OL and a TE because no one respects your passing game.  THAT is on Mitch and Nagy to fix.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Epyon said:

I'm wondering if Nagy's system might be the problem, tbh....  Trubisky clearly isn't getting it, and doesn't look like it's going to change... 

Sure as hell seems that way doesn't it?

Mitch's own comments tend to confirm that yet it hasn't seem to sunken in yet that HE is the central problem in this whole deal.

As Nagy has opened up his playbook and pushed more at him he's failed to grasp it quickly enough to use it during games and has regressed.  And yeah, until we take him out and force him to watch how Daniel operates the offense I don't believe he will get it.  He's far more timid and nervous back there than I ever thought he would be.  The game isn't slowing down for him and he's in a panic about that now too.

Either he needs more development time and teaching or he's simply not the guy we thought he was and in either case Pace needs to make plans for a vet replacement to compete with him in 2020 now.  Personally I don't think he's gonna improve by keeping him out there and making him continue to experience his failures simply because it's not making him mentally tougher it actually doing just the opposite.

[pacman5252]

In defense of the O, they have had a rough schedule (no, mn, Denver before injuries, gb... moved alright vs wash and Oakland). The next 5 are more manageable. In 5 weeks the O should come back to the middle a bit and it won’t be so doom and gloom.

 

With that said, you would like to see more designed runs (even if it hasn’t really been effective... 3.4ypc). With a bottom 5ish qb, you shouldn’t be throwing roughly 67% of the time (245 passing attempts, 120 rush). I get though that Nagey wants to be more dynamic (O guy), but you have to know your cards.

Unpopular opinion, but I’d personally still go with Mitch over Daniels. I think the random upside you can get from Mitch (Denver throws, ability to run) is slightly better than the consistent sub par play of Daniels. Neither are good options, but I at least see a path to manufacturing explosive plays with Mitch (I mean we saw it last year). Daniels in a decade hasn’t really done anything and was meh against a bottom 5 raider D.

[Cheesehawk]

ill tell you how.. you focus on it during the offseason and dont make TC a damn kicker circus

[topwop1]

10 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said:

ill tell you how.. you focus on it during the offseason and dont make TC a damn kicker circus

Well at least it looks like they found a good kicker out of it.  Maybe next off season they need to make it a QB circus.

[WindyCity]

14 hours ago, Epyon said:

Helfrich is arguably more of a pass first guy too...  He took Chip Kelly's system at Oregon and improved it statistically with more passing and less running.

I'm wondering if Nagy's system might be the problem, tbh....  Trubisky clearly isn't getting it, and doesn't look like it's going to change...  If he's only a 1 read QB, then fine, run a 1 read system like the one Oregon had under Chip/Helfrich... it can't really be worse than what we're doing right now, and Mariota could be brought in easily for it

 

You cannot win in the NFL with a 1 read offense and a 1 read QB.

[soulman]

20 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said:

ill tell you how.. you focus on it during the offseason and dont make TC a damn kicker circus

The media made it into a circus because it was about all they had to report on at least until camp began.   By then it was down to two prospects as it normally would be and the best man won.

It's kind of obvious by now that we were not getting accurate info from Nagy as far as Trubisky's progress was concerned.  The media was suggesting it routinely but since we believed in Nagy more than them we blew it off when we should not have.

Now both Trubisky and Nagy are in the dog house over it and Nagy more than anything is between a rock and hard place.  Does he keep hoping the light goes on or make a change?  IMHO if Mitch hasn't grasped it throughout camp and in five regular season games he's not gonna get it in two or three more without some serious work on his head and his mechanics.  He's in panic mode right now and incapable of leading his offense and his teammates know it.

[topwop1]

17 minutes ago, soulman said:

The media made it into a circus because it was about all they had to report on at least until camp began.   By then it was down to two prospects as it normally would be and the best man won.

It's kind of obvious by now that we were not getting accurate info from Nagy as far as Trubisky's progress was concerned.  The media was suggesting it routinely but since we believed in Nagy more than them we blew it off when we should not have.

Now both Trubisky and Nagy are in the dog house over it and Nagy more than anything is between a rock and hard place.  Does he keep hoping the light goes on or make a change?  IMHO if Mitch hasn't grasped it throughout camp and in five regular season games he's not gonna get it in two or three more without some serious work on his head and his mechanics.  He's in panic mode right now and incapable of leading his offense and his teammates know it.

To be fair I don't think any of us should have expected Nagy to flat out say to the media that Mitch was NOT progressing as well as they had hoped even if that was proven to be the case throughout TC.  I know people don't like being misled and not told the truth but people need to understand these players are humans too and for them to hear their coach publicly criticize their play or call them out is not going to do them any favors and is only going to undermine the coaches authority.  A coaches job is to get the best out of these guys and in order to do that they need to have their players trust first and foremost.

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by topwop1

[soulman]

21 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

To be fair I don't think any of us should have expected Nagy to flat out say to the media that Mitch was NOT progressing as well as they had hoped even if that was proven to be the case throughout TC.  I know people don't like being misled and not told the truth but people need to understand these players are humans too and for them to hear their coach publicly criticize their play or call them out is not going to do them any favors and is only going to undermine the coaches authority.  A coaches job is to get the best out of these guys and in order to do that they need to have their players trust first and foremost.

 

I'll grant him some grace for that but his reports were pretty glowing when in reality they should have been more tempered.

But this is what you get when you have a QB who was the #2 overall pick by your GM and you realize his backup is not adequate enough competition to threaten him as a starter.  IMHO we need to change that in 2020 or even now if we can.

Thinking back to Pace's restructuring of Leno's deal to open up more cap space it's quite possible he was planning ahead for the kind of contingency move we may be looking at now with someone like Foles.

[vegas492]

22 hours ago, BACK2MACKSACK said:

How to fix a broken offense?

I don't know if there is a single move that can make our offense even average, but the example I can think of would be how the Colts revamped their offensive line within a single draft (2018). It's unfortunate that Luck retired, but they are still playing good football without him because of the pickups of Nelson (LG) in the first and Braden Smith (RT) in the second during that draft (they also got All-Pro Leonard in the 2nd rd.)

Retooling this offensive line should be of top priority which has been neglected for a long time. Drafting one QB isn't going to solve all the problems, the foundation has to be laid for success before we even acquire a new QB. Even though we don't have a first round pick, in the second round interior lineman can be had. Also, if we can find a tackle that can start on the right side and groomed over a few years to play left that would be a good long term move.

I look at the situation and we haven't spend any high draft capital on a Tackle since Tayo Fabuluje (funny name) in only the 6th round in 2015. Before that was Leno a year earlier in the 7th round.

Retooling the offensive line will help both the running and passing game.

It is so very much the bolded part.

GB's offense has taken off once they put in a second round guard who is very good.

I'm no expert on the lineman that the Bears have, but...you can find good linemen all around the draft.  Grab two of them early, run the ball and I guarantee you will like Mitch.

Over here in GB, we had a dumpster fire at RG last year.  And Rodgers wasn't Rodgers-like.

We signed a decent one in free agency and he's not been great, but he's been solid.

We drafted a guard in the second round and together that interior of the line is playing great and allowing our QB to set his feet and not have immediate pressure.  It makes all the difference in the world.  

Even the great Tom Brady hates immediate pressure up the middle.  Shore that thing up and I think you have the offensive skill guys to get it done.

[Epyon]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

You cannot win in the NFL with a 1 read offense and a 1 read QB.

It is however, the situation we are forced into.

Mitch can't read the field, Chase/Bray both suck, and we don't have the ammo to trade for anyone right now.... I mean who is even out there other than maybe Kyle Lauletta? (currently Eagles practice squad)...

Mariota would require a trade and basically IS Mitch already, but has also only been successful in the Oregon type system (he would at least know how to run that if Helfrich fully took over as OC)

Cam is old, busted, and would cost to much

Kaepernick is a media headache no one wants.

Foles is a move that does nothing for this season, and would be expensive. Probably our best option for next year however.

Alex Smith is broken..... and would need pretty intense medical checks, but would be ideal if he's healthy..... I'm not sure the Redskins can afford to give him away when they look like an even larger dumpster fire than we do.

 

Adapt or die, imo.... and adapting to what Mitch is, and what he isn't, is the only way this season isn't punted.

 

[soulman]

And again on the OL.  How are you gonna replace two OTs we just extended who would have major dead cap hits if cut or traded?  All we can do is add some prospects to develop just as we have been but I would not spend a high pick on one in 2020.

At OG and OC we have two recent 2nd round picks who played well last year when their positions were reversed.  So....was doing that a mistake because Whitehair has been a find as far as an OL goes and Daniels has all kinds of talent and upside.  RG is the only question mark right now and we have two young prospects to plug in and try there.

We have reasonable OL talent and a top OL Coach so retooling the OL isn't the answer.  Fixing whatever the problems they're having is.