beardown3231 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Well...hiring Nagy is currently looking to be a mistake, as well. We'll see what happens. Hopefully you're right. I really don't think this is the case, or at least it's too early to say. I know it ultimately falls on him if Trubisky fails, but maybe Trubisky is so bad that Bill Walsh couldn't have saved him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, WindyCity said: If they ride or die with Trubisky in 2020 at least I am guaranteed my wish of Pace being fired. This "other GMs screw up" talking point as a reason to keep Pace is pretty weak. He made one of the all time draft blunders and traded up to do it. Add that to the fact that he is constantly wasting picks and it isn't an "other GMs" situation. 7th Overall-White 3rd Overall-Trubisky 2nd-Shaheen 3rd-Grasu 3rd-Bullard 3rd-Mitch 3rd-Mitch In 5 years he has blown all those top 100 picks. Out of all those picks though, which ones were you actually upset with at the time they were made? The point being made is that no GM bats 100%. In fact I'm willing to guess that the "hit" rate for even the best GM's is less than 50%. Also, what will you say next if you end up being wrong on Mitch and Pace's gamble on him ends up paying off? How can you be so sure of what you are saying? How does bringing in a new GM guarantee they won't be back in this position a few years from now looking for another GM? You trust the McCaskey's to make a better decision next time? Too many question marks. Edited November 13, 2019 by topwop1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, topwop1 said: Out of all those picks though, which ones were you actually upset with at the time they were made? The point being made is that no GM bats 100%. In fact I'm willing to guess that the "hit" rate for even the best GM's is less than 50%. Also, what will you say next if you end up being wrong on Mitch and Pace's gamble on him ends up paying off? How can you be so sure of what you are saying? How does bringing in a new GM guarantee they won't be back in this position a few years from now looking for another GM? You trust the McCaskey's to make a better decision next time? Too many question marks. Agreed. The White pick was a freakish fluke, he had no real injury concerns from what I recall and his injuries in the NFL were completely different than any he had before. If he had blown his knee out in college or really messed up his back and that happened again in the NFL then I'd be pissed about it. What happened there was just an aberration. QB is the premier spot, I have no issues with trading up to get the guy you want. Missing is what hurts, the hit rate for 3rd rounders makes their loss fairly insubstantial. Sucks to lose the picks but if a 3rd round pick is what loses you your job then you were doing a terrible job to begin with. Shaheen has been a MAJOR disappointment. Small school but showed flashes (not dominance), tested pretty well but didn't jump out from what I recall, etc. I think (myself included) many of us tried to make connections with the Baby Gronk nickname and size, rather than look objectively. Pace eats that one completely. Grasu was known to be a weaker guy who would need time to get stronger. I'd have rather seen him as a blocking TE or FB early on since he was an athlete, he just never had a chance to really anchor against powerful OL, so he was a liability. In a power scheme he'd have been even worse. Pace can eat that one. Bullard was drafted as a pure 3T and then was forced to become a 5T, which completely ruined him IMO. We saw the last year and this preseason he was absolutely stronger and better vs the run, but he lost a lot of quickness and didn't seem to have any COD ability anymore - maybe from the weight, Idk. That was a baffling ordeal that Pace screwed up IMO. He was built for one role and forced into a role that was his weakness. Idc if he never made a real start, I'd have been fine with him being my nickel 3T and only playing on likely passing downs, a DT version of Alton Smith. These misses hurt but Pace has been above average in his drafts I believe, especially in his FA signings. I'd be fine with him being ordered to see a significant jump on offense in 2020 (really not a huge prerequisite since the offense has been terrible) or be looking elsewhere for other options at GM in the future, he ultimately picked Tru and then Nagy to fit Tru rather than a package deal and it hasn't worked out at all. But in no way is he looking at losing his job this offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 While it’s hard to sift through all the poor performances on offense, Miller, Daniels, and Cohen are also looking pretty bad right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 59 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: While it’s hard to sift through all the poor performances on offense, Miller, Daniels, and Cohen are also looking pretty bad right now. Cohen is at least a Pro Bowl PR. Offensively he still loves running east and west, but to get a Pro Bowl anything in round 4 is pretty good. I agree on Miller (to an extent- when he gets looks, he catches it) and definitely on Daniels (to this point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 hours ago, topwop1 said: Out of all those picks though, which ones were you actually upset with at the time they were made? The point being made is that no GM bats 100%. In fact I'm willing to guess that the "hit" rate for even the best GM's is less than 50%. Also, what will you say next if you end up being wrong on Mitch and Pace's gamble on him ends up paying off? How can you be so sure of what you are saying? How does bringing in a new GM guarantee they won't be back in this position a few years from now looking for another GM? You trust the McCaskey's to make a better decision next time? Too many question marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 hours ago, topwop1 said: Out of all those picks though, which ones were you actually upset with at the time they were made? The point being made is that no GM bats 100%. In fact I'm willing to guess that the "hit" rate for even the best GM's is less than 50%. Also, what will you say next if you end up being wrong on Mitch and Pace's gamble on him ends up paying off? How can you be so sure of what you are saying? How does bringing in a new GM guarantee they won't be back in this position a few years from now looking for another GM? You trust the McCaskey's to make a better decision next time? Too many question marks. I was upset with very few. But I am some dude on the internet who does mock drafts on his lunch breaks. Shouldn't Pace be held to a higher standard then me? No GM bats 100%, I am not advocating firing Pace because he has made too many mistakes. I am advocating firing him because he has made a couple monumental mistakes and been very cavalier with draft resources. I am sure because I have watched 30 games of Mitch. A new GM does not guarantee anything. But Pace is a proven failure as a QB evaluater. The next GM will not be a proven failure. I will always take an unknown over a known failure. The one thing that is not in question is that Pace sucks at evaluating QBs and the Bears desperately need a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Sugashane said: Agreed. The White pick was a freakish fluke, he had no real injury concerns from what I recall and his injuries in the NFL were completely different than any he had before. If he had blown his knee out in college or really messed up his back and that happened again in the NFL then I'd be pissed about it. What happened there was just an aberration. QB is the premier spot, I have no issues with trading up to get the guy you want. Missing is what hurts, the hit rate for 3rd rounders makes their loss fairly insubstantial. Sucks to lose the picks but if a 3rd round pick is what loses you your job then you were doing a terrible job to begin with. Shaheen has been a MAJOR disappointment. Small school but showed flashes (not dominance), tested pretty well but didn't jump out from what I recall, etc. I think (myself included) many of us tried to make connections with the Baby Gronk nickname and size, rather than look objectively. Pace eats that one completely. Grasu was known to be a weaker guy who would need time to get stronger. I'd have rather seen him as a blocking TE or FB early on since he was an athlete, he just never had a chance to really anchor against powerful OL, so he was a liability. In a power scheme he'd have been even worse. Pace can eat that one. Bullard was drafted as a pure 3T and then was forced to become a 5T, which completely ruined him IMO. We saw the last year and this preseason he was absolutely stronger and better vs the run, but he lost a lot of quickness and didn't seem to have any COD ability anymore - maybe from the weight, Idk. That was a baffling ordeal that Pace screwed up IMO. He was built for one role and forced into a role that was his weakness. Idc if he never made a real start, I'd have been fine with him being my nickel 3T and only playing on likely passing downs, a DT version of Alton Smith. These misses hurt but Pace has been above average in his drafts I believe, especially in his FA signings. I'd be fine with him being ordered to see a significant jump on offense in 2020 (really not a huge prerequisite since the offense has been terrible) or be looking elsewhere for other options at GM in the future, he ultimately picked Tru and then Nagy to fit Tru rather than a package deal and it hasn't worked out at all. But in no way is he looking at losing his job this offseason. When healthy Kevin White looked awful and is out of the league. He had a 66% chance of drafting a stud QB and he missed. On top of that he traded away a bunch of picks to have the right to pick the worst QB in the draft. The hit rate on a 3rd round pick is around 60%. That could be depth or a starter. Shaheen was a cute pick from a tiny school and he has never shown he can play at the NFL level outside of catching goal lines fades and getting concussed. Grasu sucks. He drafted Bullard to play in the wrong system. That is suppose to be a positive? Pleas explain how he is above average in his drafts and be honest about your assessment of his picks? Free agency, come on. He alternates years between good and horrible wastes of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 2015 1. Bust 2. Really Good 3. Bust 4. Bust 5. Good 6. Bad 2016 1. Okay 2. Good 3. Bad 4. Good 4. Good 4. Bad 5. Really Good 6. Good 7. Bad, if a 7th round pick can be bad. 2017 1. Epic Bust 2. Bust 3. Bust 4. Bust 4. Really Good 4. Good 5. Bad 2018 1. Good 2. Don't Know 2. Don't Know 3. Bust 4. Okay 5. Good 6. Badish 7. Good Above Average? 4 top 10 picks and there is 1 player I think is for sure getting a 2nd contract and there is 2 stone cold busts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I was upset with very few. But I am some dude on the internet who does mock drafts on his lunch breaks. Shouldn't Pace be held to a higher standard then me? No GM bats 100%, I am not advocating firing Pace because he has made too many mistakes. I am advocating firing him because he has made a couple monumental mistakes and been very cavalier with draft resources. I am sure because I have watched 30 games of Mitch. A new GM does not guarantee anything. But Pace is a proven failure as a QB evaluater. The next GM will not be a proven failure. I will always take an unknown over a known failure. The one thing that is not in question is that Pace sucks at evaluating QBs and the Bears desperately need a QB. Exactly you are a dude on the internet just like the rest of us. We are not qualified enough to talk in absolutes when assessing whether a player, coach or GM is a proven failure. What if Mitch turns into an above average SB winning QB? You know he will be given every chance to succeed so might as well try and get behind it and not bash the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Exactly you are a dude on the internet just like the rest of us. We are not qualified enough to talk in absolutes when assessing whether a player, coach or GM is a proven failure. What if Mitch turns into an above average SB winning QB? You know he will be given every chance to succeed so might as well try and get behind it and not bash the kid. What if, what if, what if. I am qualified to assess the evidence and come to an opinion. My opinion is based on what we have seen, this magical Mitch light bulb moment is not based on fact but hope, or some weird avoidance of reality. The nice thing about football is that the results are obvious. You can continue to sit around and hope that things will magically get better. I am moving on and looking to fix things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 I support the Chicago Bears. I do not support individual players. Because, this might blow some minds, maybe the best thing for the Chicago Bears is that Mitch is no longer the QB. We have a mountain of evidence that he is not good and hurting the team. That would mean many of you are cheering against the best interest of your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 What if the best thing for the Bears is to get rid of Pace and Trubisky and expedite the process of getting a legit QB in here? Imagine having a legit QB with this defense. That is sustained success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Is Pace the new Jerry Angelo? We’ve seen he can build a defense and finds some mid round steals, but can’t fix the offense and is prone to missing on higher picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Is Pace the new Jerry Angelo? We’ve seen he can build a defense and finds some mid round steals, but can’t fix the offense and is prone to missing on higher picks. How many years did we waste with Jerry waiting for him to fix the QB spot? How many good defensive years were thrown away? Pace has announced pretty loudly and boldly that he can’t fix the QB spot. Time to find someone who can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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